Specialization is for Insects

IAM

IAM

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The dominant theory on these boards is to specialize everything. But specialization is weak. Weak in life weak in the game. Production cities, commerce cities, science/great people cities are like a tripod stool. Loss one leg of the stool and your empire falls. A non-specialized civ is like a dozen ballerinas with flaming machetes. Loose a few and it doesn't matter. You're still strong and dangerous. Specialization= death.

Strategy: Run your empire like it is one massive city. Every city developes tiles for balanced hammers commerce and science. Every city builds barracks, library, market.

Advantage: Several civs declare war and you loose 3 of 12 cities. You have only lost 25% of your capacity to build promoted military units. If a specialized civ looses it's two or three 'unit pumps' that civ is dead. Specialization = death

Stratagy: Avoid specialized civics like Bureacracy or Wonders like the Great Light House. Great lighthouse only helps coastal cities. Avoid wonder building but capturing a wonder like Temple of Artemis is OK. Avoid founding relegions and holy shrines. Spread all relegions equally and get free relegion.

Advantage: Build all cities equally. You are only as strong as your weakest link. The weakest link is your most specialized city. I have seen cities with 4 World Wonders and a Holy Shrine. When I razed that city that empire was dead and they immediately capitulated. Specialization = death.

Strategy: Spiritual trait is the best because it allows switching civics easy. Less specialization. Science civics for Liberalism race, war civics for war, etc.

Advantage: Research Feudalism. Swith to vassalage. All cities build longbows. This gives you combat II longbows across your empire. Barracks+ vassalage. Specialization = death.

Strategy: Promote all units with combat I, combat II, combat III, combat IV etc. Other promotions get outdated shock, cover etc. combat line is versatile and works against every type of opponent.

Advantage: Combat promoted city defenders are not specialized so they can effectively attack and kill barbarians, pillagers, enemy units, scout, steal workers, etc. specialization= death

Story: You (broken stool specialized civ) me (dozen ballerinas with flaming machetes civ); I declare war on you. Your cottaged specialized city has specialized defenders. Two machine guns. I have a combat II warrior. Your specialized machine gun unit can not attack my warrior. I don't attack your city I pillage your cottages. Every tile I pillage cost you that commerce times all the multipliers in that city (grocer, market, bank etc.) If you pillage the same cottaged tile in my civ I don't loose as much because I'm not specialized. I win.

Philosophy: The truthness here is obvious. Specialization is for insects. The industrial era has turned man into an automaton. Whether she is changing out a human heart or gutting a chicken on an assembly line. Strategy in civ should not be some insect specialization. Strategy in civ should not be as the Lion that sleeps 20+ hours a day. We should use our human strategy. Specialization = death.
 
To counter, specialization allow syou to spread limited resources across your empir emore efficiently.

A major limiting factor in producing things is hammers. Why bother producing libraries everywhere (let's say a library costs x hammers) when you could just make it your main science city and achieve the same amount of beakers/turn? You could pay a cost of x in building ONE library in your science city or a cost of 6*X (assuming you have 6 cities).

OR, factor in great generals as a limiting factor. If you only have say, two of them, you could either specialize your cities and stick the two in one major unit pump or you could just put them in two random cities. With approach A (unit pump), every unit you pump out will have 4 extra XP. WIth approach B, only 1/3 of your units will have 2 extra XP. But this is far more trivial compared to the paragraph above.

I say that specialization makes the best use of limited resources (hammers). You can either spend your hammers wisely, only building buildings to boost things in cities where they are needed most, OR you can spend them frivolously, building multiply redundant buildings EVERYWHERE to achieve the same benefit, but at a much higher cost.

Yes, you're right, with specilization, if any one peg falls, you're going to be majorly hurt (science city, unit pump, etc.). So don't let that happen.

If you were going to lose that city anyway, being non-specialized wouldn't matter, because with the amount of hammers you were going to spend to get that city back, you won't be able to anyway.
 
While your approach is slightly more eloquent than our resident troytheface of the attacko broadcasting station the message still fails to deliver.

2/10
 
-1 for not actually citing the source of the title quote.

+1 for the immortal phrase "A non-specialized civ is like a dozen ballerinas with flaming machetes. Loose a few and it doesn't matter."
 
beestar said:
-1 for not actually citing the source of the title quote.
Click to expand...

Corrected:

A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.

-Robert A. Heinlein
 
Actually, a science fiction writer, even Heinlein, isn't an authoritative source.

Losing 3 out of 12 cities to an invasion is what specialization tries to avoid. If you're running 90% science with a good holy city, building money multipliers isn't a good idea. A few more troops is. You might not lose those 3 cities.

Unfortunately, we specialize in real life too. We all should have minimum general abilities, yes, but I don't want a mechanic prescribing my medicine or a doctor fixing my car.
 
IAM said:
Corrected:

A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.

-Robert A. Heinlein
Click to expand...

There's like 8 of those things I can't do, but I'm sure glad I specialized in debits and credits...

When I have my specialized military city pumping out a unit every turn, how exactly am I going to lose 3 of 12 cities (unless I'm playing on deity)?
 
IAM said:
The industrial era has turned man into an automaton.
Click to expand...
This is clearly false information.

It is the future era, and only with the Next War mod pack, that lets you turn man into an automaton.
 
ensign_lee said:
To counter, specialization allow syou to spread limited resources across your empir emore efficiently.

A major limiting factor in producing things is hammers. Why bother producing libraries everywhere (let's say a library costs x hammers) when you could just make it your main science city and achieve the same amount of beakers/turn? You could pay a cost of x in building ONE library in your science city or a cost of 6*X (assuming you have 6 cities).

OR, factor in great generals as a limiting factor. If you only have say, two of them, you could either specialize your cities and stick the two in one major unit pump or you could just put them in two random cities. With approach A (unit pump), every unit you pump out will have 4 extra XP. WIth approach B, only 1/3 of your units will have 2 extra XP. But this is far more trivial compared to the paragraph above.

I say that specialization makes the best use of limited resources (hammers). You can either spend your hammers wisely, only building buildings to boost things in cities where they are needed most, OR you can spend them frivolously, building multiply redundant buildings EVERYWHERE to achieve the same benefit, but at a much higher cost.

Yes, you're right, with specilization, if any one peg falls, you're going to be majorly hurt (science city, unit pump, etc.). So don't let that happen.

If you were going to lose that city anyway, being non-specialized wouldn't matter, because with the amount of hammers you were going to spend to get that city back, you won't be able to anyway.
Click to expand...


Point 1- libraries also ad culture and the ability the run scienctist.

Point 2- great generals can be held in reserve and added to a stack of units to promote many up the combat line at the critical juncture of battle. Battles are often won (or lost if you don't have some great generals in reserve) at critical junctures.

Point 3- Sir you are correct here: "Yes, you're right, with specilization, if any one peg falls, you're going to be majorly hurt..." specialization = death
 
You're shedding a really bad light on Heinlein, mate. There's a difference between good specialization and bad specialization.

Every human being should be able to survive on its own but specialize his role in the community. The same applies to civ. Saying "oh this is a GP Farm, I won't build a single unit here even if there's just 3 enemy swordsmen 5 tiles away" is dumb. Saying "oh, this is a GP farm, I'll try to build national epic here and try to hire specialists whenever reasonable" is smart.

Specialization is not bad. Insects are not bad. After all, they have been around for longer than we have. Its not a question of better or worse, but a question of difference. Maybe, on the long run, nature will prove "the insect way" was better. But somehow I doubt it. Having the liberty of not being overspecialized allows us to use a greater variety of tools. Sure, an ant can carry 20x its weight (or even more, don't know), but a human being can build a machine that can lift a million times more weight than himself.

Time, or game turns, the fourth dimension, is a thing that many people seem to forget when discussing "strategies". Sure, you can have 10 GP farms at start, with 2 scientists hired in every library. But in 200 turns, these will be at least 50 times less effective then a single specialized GP farm.

If you want to specialize the whole nation -- that's what civics are for :)

There are certain... layers of every civilization that stretch out through every city. Like skin or a neural system. Granaries, Monuments, Libraries or Temples (depending very much on your traits as well) will probably be present in every city. But what good is a forge or marketplace if they boost your production or commerce by mere 2-3 per turn?

Military units are like white blood cells - portable hammer investments, a sort of an insurance policy. If you put 100 :hammers: into city infrastucture, you might as well "insure" it with 25 :hammers: of units. There's always the option of using these "accumulated hammer insurance policies" for an aggressive invesment, much to the dismay of your closest neighbour :D
 
Bah, we already have a troy, we don't need two...

If you really believe so much in that specialization is bad, I guess you should not have a brain :D... specialized cells to transmit electric impulses? Geesh, that is so insect-like.
 
SillyGoat said:
"The majority of the inhabitants of planet Earth have six legs" - Robert Anton Willson.

Specialization obviously has something going for it.
Click to expand...

The weight of all the ants in the world is greater than the weight of all humans! Rawr!
 
But ants can't play Civ, even in co-operation with each other. Ensign_Lee is so obviously right, though. But why not make it a challenge: IAM and one of the specialisation kings each play the same start - let IAM choose the set up, but obviously events and goody huts off... and see who comes out on top?
 
IAM said:
The dominant theory on these boards is to specialize everything. But specialization is weak. Weak in life weak in the game. Production cities, commerce cities, science/great people cities are like a tripod stool. Loss one leg of the stool and your empire falls. A non-specialized civ is like a dozen ballerinas with flaming machetes. Loose a few and it doesn't matter. You're still strong and dangerous. Specialization= death.

Strategy: Run your empire like it is one massive city. Every city developes tiles for balanced hammers commerce and science. Every city builds barracks, library, market.

Advantage: Several civs declare war and you loose 3 of 12 cities. You have only lost 25% of your capacity to build promoted military units. If a specialized civ looses it's two or three 'unit pumps' that civ is dead. Specialization = death

Stratagy: Avoid specialized civics like Bureacracy or Wonders like the Great Light House. Great lighthouse only helps coastal cities. Avoid wonder building but capturing a wonder like Temple of Artemis is OK. Avoid founding relegions and holy shrines. Spread all relegions equally and get free relegion.

Advantage: Build all cities equally. You are only as strong as your weakest link. The weakest link is your most specialized city. I have seen cities with 4 World Wonders and a Holy Shrine. When I razed that city that empire was dead and they immediately capitulated. Specialization = death.

Strategy: Spiritual trait is the best because it allows switching civics easy. Less specialization. Science civics for Liberalism race, war civics for war, etc.

Advantage: Research Feudalism. Swith to vassalage. All cities build longbows. This gives you combat II longbows across your empire. Barracks+ vassalage. Specialization = death.

Strategy: Promote all units with combat I, combat II, combat III, combat IV etc. Other promotions get outdated shock, cover etc. combat line is versatile and works against every type of opponent.

Advantage: Combat promoted city defenders are not specialized so they can effectively attack and kill barbarians, pillagers, enemy units, scout, steal workers, etc. specialization= death

Story: You (broken stool specialized civ) me (dozen ballerinas with flaming machetes civ); I declare war on you. Your cottaged specialized city has specialized defenders. Two machine guns. I have a combat II warrior. Your specialized machine gun unit can not attack my warrior. I don't attack your city I pillage your cottages. Every tile I pillage cost you that commerce times all the multipliers in that city (grocer, market, bank etc.) If you pillage the same cottaged tile in my civ I don't loose as much because I'm not specialized. I win.

Philosophy: The truthness here is obvious. Specialization is for insects. The industrial era has turned man into an automaton. Whether she is changing out a human heart or gutting a chicken on an assembly line. Strategy in civ should not be some insect specialization. Strategy in civ should not be as the Lion that sleeps 20+ hours a day. We should use our human strategy. Specialization = death.
Click to expand...
This thread demands it:
o_rly.jpg
 
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