Noble's Club XLIII: Bismarck of Germany

ilikepies

Warlord
Joined
Feb 19, 2007
Messages
247
The Nobles' Club series started out as a way for Noble-level (and below) players to improve their game. Most of the original participants now play at much higher levels, so this has become a way for advanced players to help others learn to play better. You can play your own game at any level and with any mod, but it would be nice to comment on the games of other players and give them advice.

This week's leader is Bismarck, a solid leader who doesn't get much attention- all the better to make a Noble's Club with! And here he is, in all his pickelhaubed glory:



EXP means more :health: and therefore bigger cities, as well as double production for the two food buildings- Granary and Harbor- and IND means 50% faster wonders and 100% faster forges. Since the Granary and Forge are must have buildings for a city, Bismarck should be able to have large and strong cities up quickly and use those on wonderspamming or unitspamming.

  • His UU: the Panzer.

    The Panzer is a tank with a 50% bonus versus other armored units. It is a UU that attracts very mixed reactions. It comes quite late into the game and most people consider it useless since enemy tanks shouldn't be defending cities. I personally think that it's decent, since it cannot be assumed that all wars will consist of utterly smashing the AI in their cities and having no trouble at all, and enemy tanks could still be stuck in their cities anyways.
  • His UB: the Assembly Plant.

    The assembly plant is a factory that produces 50% faster with coal and allows 2 more engineers. More engineer specialists means more production and more wonderspamming potential. Unfortunately, it comes late in the game. However, a fast-producing factory that adds versatility can't be a bad thing.

The start:

4 food tiles, 3 of which are seafood, for an expansive leader... very nice.

Juicy map spoilers:
Spoiler :
A fractal map, all default settings. Don't neglect the water, as there are pieces of land that you could use tactically. I tweaked a bit with the leaders. You will likely get into some fights this game, as one of your neighbors is military-minded, but you should be able to out-tech and produce him. Plenty of production resources are yours to grab provided you don't sit in your capital for 4000 years.


Finally, a cut and paste of our standard doctrine:

There are no hard and fast rules here: fun and learning are our primary goals, but we do request that you update your progress at various points in the game, using the Spoiler feature of the boards.

Tentative posting updates are suggested at:

4000 BC (starting thoughts, no spoiler required for that discussion)
1000 BC or so (how you decided to progress up the early tech/build paths, which AIs you have met, where you're thinking of putting cities, etc)
500 AD or so (after establishing some cities and a possible plan of action)
1200 AD or so (mid-game, Lib race, wars or peace, or whichever happened or didnt, met other continent if applicable, etc)
1600 AD (or when you have decided on a course of action and a specific victory condition)
End of game (Victory!!! or defeat, no shame in losing, especially if you tried a higher level. Learning is what we focus on, not fastest win or biggest empire)

Remember, these are only guidelines. What we really want are your thoughts as the game goes on, so if your strats don't fall into line with those dates, feel free to adjust your reports accordingly.

We also welcome players to ask for specific game advice, as we have a number or stronger players who lurk and help out with solid tips, and of course, we help each other. Replies to specific questions should also be in spoilers, with a simple "@" in front of the person the answer is directed towards.

Special Thanks go to Bleys and TMIT, who really made this series a great one, r_rolo1, mapmaker extraordinaire, for his maps for most of the series, and all of you for playing.

The WB-saves are attached (zipped; they are bigger than standard saves). To play, simply download and unzip it into your BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Start the game, and load your favorite MOD (if you use one, if not, check out the BUG MOD), select "Play Scenario", and look for "NC43 Bismarck Noble" (or Monarch, if you want the AI to start with its usual Archery bonus tech, or Immortal for Archery+Hunting, or Deity to add Agriculture). This allows you to play with your favorite MOD at the Level and Speed of your choice. From Quick-Warlord to Marathon-Deity, all are welcome! We stuck with the name "Nobles Club" because it has a cool ring to it.

IF YOU ARE PLAYING THE GAME ON A DIFFICULTY OTHER THAN NORMAL, you'll have to make some changes. I seem to have made a mistake by leaving the speed locked at normal. You can fix it by going into your BtS/saves/worldbuilder directory and opening the save with a word processor, then replacing "MaxTurns=500" with "MaxTurns=0". Thank you CivilizedTiger. Sorry for the mistake.
 
ilikepies, I would suggest that you turn the resource bubble on when posting the screenshot of the start.
 
About the map:

Spoiler :
I played through till 100 BC. I'm second in tech(behind toku?) but I'm incredibly hemmed in to 5 cities, with REX Sury to the north and Toku to the south. I may be at pleased with him, but he's blocked me off badly and there's no way I can kill him unless I preplan 1000 years ahead of time(Which I should be doing). He already has construction though, and he didn't build the oracle. Which means I am most certainly doomed at this point. I REXed my heart out, but I can't think of any other ways I could have killed him. No copper, no horses, and he had bronze by the time I had iron. Very had on monarch, for me, atleast. Can anyone give me some pointers? I uploaded this as a WB save because I'm using a mod(does that affect it if it's WB?). Basically BULL+BAT+BUG+BetterAI+Blue Marble. The speed was normal, difficulty monarch.
 

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Hi

Tried to do this at marathon speed but it stays at 500 turns :/.

Kaytie

It's the first time I'm glad that I made an early mistake in the game, causing me to require to rerun. And since I quit the first try, I also looked at this thread and saw your post. :D My marathon game would have ended kind of abruptly if I hadn't made that mistake. :D

Open the WB with a text editor
Search for "MaxTurns=500"
Replace with "MaxTurns=0"

I'm not sure whether the gamespeed line needs to be changed as well, but, as far as I know, the maxturns is the only problematic part.
 
About the map:

Spoiler :
I played through till 100 BC. I'm second in tech(behind toku?) but I'm incredibly hemmed in to 5 cities, with REX Sury to the north and Toku to the south. I may be at pleased with him, but he's blocked me off badly and there's no way I can kill him unless I preplan 1000 years ahead of time(Which I should be doing). He already has construction though, and he didn't build the oracle. Which means I am most certainly doomed at this point. I REXed my heart out, but I can't think of any other ways I could have killed him. No copper, no horses, and he had bronze by the time I had iron. Very had on monarch, for me, atleast. Can anyone give me some pointers? I uploaded this as a WB save because I'm using a mod(does that affect it if it's WB?). Basically BULL+BAT+BUG+BetterAI+Blue Marble. The speed was normal, difficulty monarch.

Spoiler :
I played until I realize I had neither horses nor copper between me and Toku. Fighting a protective civ is never fun anyway, let alone Toku. There's always Mansa, but it's hard fighting Toku (whose got you by the shoulder by virtue of his start) and teching enough to keep up with Mansa.

The map has some good city spots, but no early strategic resources in the vicinity of your capital is hard for a Noble's club. Just my $0.02.
 
Emperor/Epic to 1AD:
Spoiler :

Moved around a little bit and found the gold, so settled the capital to get gold+corn+clams+cow. Realized Toku was close and figured getting rid of him would be best. With gold in BFC a HA rush looked reasonable. Except for no horses nearby. Ended up settling copper with second city for defensive units. Later found horses further to the east and settled those. Then...




Kept pumping HAs while using conquest gold to fund research. Toku never put up a fight....and he never even built any spears??? Anyways, at 1 AD my horses are regrouping so I decided to take this deal and re-declare in 10 turns (he only has 1 city left).








I'm not horribly behind in tech. My economy is tanked (losing gold at 0%:science:), but if I can just get through to currency I can build wealth to carry on. A number of great cottage sites so I'll be spamming them to get back on track.

I'm very tempted to take HAs to MM since he barely has any units. Not sure the economy can handle that though.

 
It's the first time I'm glad that I made an early mistake in the game, causing me to require to rerun. And since I quit the first try, I also looked at this thread and saw your post. :D My marathon game would have ended kind of abruptly if I hadn't made that mistake. :D

Open the WB with a text editor
Search for "MaxTurns=500"
Replace with "MaxTurns=0"

I'm not sure whether the gamespeed line needs to be changed as well, but, as far as I know, the maxturns is the only problematic part.

Need Speed=0 also I think. Currently it is at Speed=GAMESPEED_NORMAL about the 4th line of code.

cas
 
@Dualmaster
Spoiler :
Nice job. I was a little worried about being boxed in but I didn't realized Toku would expand so aggressively. Its my first time hosting one of these and I guess I made it too hard. Seems like rushing Toku is the best thing, and as I said in the map spoiler, aggresive coastal expansion would help too.. I wish I could have made it easier, but I suppose an extra hard game with a rarely used leader can be interesting, once in a while? :mischief:
 
Think I will take a break from the one city space and try one city conquest on Monarch->normal. Hope we have either uranium or oil. If not, at least we have corn for std ethanol corp.

Settling 1S seems best. Keeps the 3 clam in BFC and gives you more land to work with. Still on coast/river and will irigate the corn through the city. More river tiles to the SW.

cas
 
I used the monarch save to play emperor and barbs did not have archery. Mansa captured 4 or 5 barb cities with ease.
 
@Dualmaster
Spoiler :
Nice job. I was a little worried about being boxed in but I didn't realized Toku would expand so aggressively. Its my first time hosting one of these and I guess I made it too hard. Seems like rushing Toku is the best thing, and as I said in the map spoiler, aggresive coastal expansion would help too.. I wish I could have made it easier, but I suppose an extra hard game with a rarely used leader can be interesting, once in a while? :mischief:

Spoiler :
I don't think it's that hard if you get some settlers out properly. I found managing Toku is okay. I originally planned to axe rush him but really didn't get copper hooked up in time or have decent production early. I turned him back on one of his DOW and now expect to take him down as he declared on Mansa. Once I capture all his cities it shouldn't be bad, except I don't know the mystery AIs yet - my caravels just started exploring. I'm playing emperor.

As for the Monarch Plus save - I think we need some blurb about archery. Either add them in or expain how too. I haven't a clue, but warrior barbs are problematic from the standpoint that AIs capture their cities too easily.
 
To Liberalism - a very close race:
Spoiler :

After finishing Toku, I cottaged up and got the economy back in shape. Was going to go after Mansa with HAs, but he got longbows and my economy was already tanked.

So I wanted to take Democracy from Liberalism, but Mansa was threatening to get there first. So I bought a few turns by bribing him into a war:



You can see that Mansa is only 5 turns from finishing Liberalism. I still had to tech through Liberalism, Machinery, and PP to take Democracy. So without Machinery, I was able to bulb almost all of Liberalism:





Then I was able to immediately trade for Machinery:



Then some major deficit research to grab PP before finishing off Lib:



In the background you can see I beat Mansa by 1 turn!


To 1760 Domination:
Spoiler :

With democracy, I mass cottaged and ran all bottom line civics. Started blowing out everyone else with tech. Headed for Communism, then artillery+rifles. Bought all the gold buildings, then mass rush bought units for the rest of the game. Poor Mansa only had muskets against my artillery.



This stack only took 8-10 turns to buy? Then everybody died.















 
Spoiler :
What I learned from this map:
a) You need 2x the amount of axes vs Tokugawa
b) Don`t build 3 workboats first :p

The map: It´s kind of cruel to start with an industrious leader with marble and stone in sight but be forced to crush Tokugawa in 1000BC in order to do anything on this map... Restarting ... :)
 
Spoiler :
What I learned from this map:
a) You need 2x the amount of axes vs Tokugawa
b) Don`t build 3 workboats first :p

The map: It´s kind of cruel to start with an industrious leader with marble and stone in sight but be forced to crush Tokugawa in 1000BC in order to do anything on this map... Restarting ... :)
Spoiler :

Yeah, I chose to ignore the early wonders. It just wasn't feasible with a production poor cap to go for those - and the Great Wall was not needed this game. However, in mid-game I'm pulling in some good wonder like the GL. Toku is my vassal and I have all his cities in the south.

I don't think it's worth axe rushing Toku on this map. Either wait for swords/cats or horse archers. Also, you can likely get Mansa involved.
 
Yeah, I chose to ignore the early wonders.
Spoiler :
It just wasn't feasible with a production poor cap to go for those - and the Great Wall was not needed this game. However, in mid-game I'm pulling in some good wonder like the GL. Toku is my vassal and I have all his cities in the south.

I don't think it's worth axe rushing Toku on this map. Either wait for swords/cats or horse archers. Also, you can likely get Mansa involved.
Spoiler :


Well, in my 2nd run (on monarch) I sort of axe rushed Toku, but he had so many archers and 2 MONSTER-ELITE-YOU-CAN´T-KILL-US axes so that I had to get a HUGE stack (12 axes and 6 swords) to capture his capital after pillaging most of his land. However, I settled one east of the start, so I have 3 seafood + rice + wheat in the capital and I built the Pyramids (and the Oracle (and the Parthenon and the National Epic! (and the Great Library)) there.
After 1000s of years of pillaging warfare, he now (900 AD) lost his 2nd city to a stack of catapults but I am slightly behind in tech. The capital totally rocks, so it´s gonna be interesting late-game :) I will be trying to tech towards factories and corporation and have a major tank-war in the end. The Khmer are bashing Mali at the moment, so I have some hope to survive until later...

Rushing Toku with axes is not really worth it/possible. But it´s funny to have a 3000-years war ;-)
 
Playing bismarck monarch and level is prince
these are 1000BC screenshots

I started playing in Jan when I got civ4 during the steam sale, please give me advice!! especially city placement and diplomatic strategy as I feel I am very weak at that aspect of the game
Spoiler :


choose to get the marble quickly with a city




hamburg will be a production city and munich will be cottage

I managed to get the Great Lighthouse in the capital so my next 2 cities will be coastal... unfortunately musa has a lot of enemies so even though he is a good tech trader im avoiding dealing with him until i can take on tokugawa.... the plan is to land grab east towards musa and then south to cut off tokugawa from the land leaving him with desert/tundra and that should be enough to get an advantage in the future where i can easily kill him with superior tech units

I didn't use the trees for the lighthouse as I wanted to make sure I got the great library... also I decided to settle downwards to get the gold mine, bad idea to burn those 2 turns?

 
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