Nobles' Club XLVI: Isabella of Spain

dalamb

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The Nobles' Club series started out as a way for Noble-level (and below) players to improve their game. Most of the original participants now play at much higher levels, so this has become a way for advanced players to help others learn to play better. You can play your own game at any level and with any mod, but it would be nice to comment on the games of other players and give them advice.

Our next leader is Isabella of Spain.
  • SPI means temples are cheaper; also, changing civics avoids anarchy, which means diplomacy can be easier. EXP means +2:health: and cheaper granaries and harbours. The Spanish start with Mysticism and Fishing.
  • Her UB, the Citadel (a modified Castle), gives +5 XP for siege units; with barracks and a suitable civic (or general) this means CR III siege out of the gate. This might be a reason to go for Engineering rather earlier than in a more typical game, and to actually build a few castles (which people often consider not worthwhile).
  • Her UU: the Conquistador, a Cuirassier with a bonus against melee units. Just like in history, if she can invade a pre-gunpowder civilization, she has more of an advantage than usual.
And the start:

Spoiler show map details :
Two custom continents; random opponents. I changed most deserts to plains, and gave a bit more land to some leaders who started on small peninsulae. I was tempted to do more, but in the past I've edited some maps too much.
Finally, a cut and paste of our standard doctrine:

There are no hard and fast rules here: fun and learning are our primary goals, but we do request that you update your progress at various points in the game, using the Spoiler feature of the boards.

Tentative posting updates are suggested at:

4000 BC (starting thoughts, no spoiler required for that discussion)
1000 BC or so (how you decided to progress up the early tech/build paths, which AIs you have met, where you're thinking of putting cities, etc)
500 AD or so (after establishing some cities and a possible plan of action)
1200 AD or so (mid-game, Lib race, wars or peace, or whichever happened or didnt, met other continent if applicable, etc)
1600 AD (or when you have decided on a course of action and a specific victory condition)
End of game (Victory!!! or defeat, no shame in losing, especially if you tried a higher level. Learning is what we focus on, not fastest win or biggest empire)

Remember, these are only guidelines. What we really want are your thoughts as the game goes on, so if your strats don't fall into line with those dates, feel free to adjust your reports accordingly.

We also welcome players to ask for specific game advice, as we have a number or stronger players who lurk and help out with solid tips, and of course, we help each other. Replies to specific questions should also be in spoilers, with a simple "@" in front of the person the answer is directed towards.

Special Thanks go to Bleys and TMIT, who really made this series a great one, r_rolo1, mapmaker extraordinaire, for his maps for most of the series, and all of you for playing.

The WB-saves are attached (zipped; they are bigger than standard saves). To play, simply download and unzip it into your BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Start the game, and load your favorite MOD (if you use one, if not, check out the BUG MOD), select "Play Scenario", and look for "NC 46 Isabella Noble" (or Monarch, if you want the AI to start with its usual Archery bonus tech, or Immortal for Archery+Hunting, or Deity to add Agriculture). This allows you to play with your favorite MOD at the Level and Speed of your choice. From Quick-Warlord to Marathon-Deity, all are welcome! We stuck with the name "Nobles Club" because it has a cool ring to it.
 

Attachments

  • NV 46 Isabella.zip
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There's probably too much risk involved in settling 1S, isn't there? I'm tempted to do so and use that floodplains and crab for a second city...

I'll be playing Monarch/Marathon.
 
Typo -- the leader's name within the game says "NC 56 Isabella" instead of 46.

Heh, and the zip file name is "NV 46 Isabella" - bad luck with the typos!

I'm going to settle in place, since I've almost never been better off moving. I'll assume there's food in one of the tiles I can't see yet, and hope for some combo of horses, copper, and iron.

I'm going to do this one on Prince/Normal. Assuming it goes as well as my last few Prince games, I'll go to Monarch after this one.

I'm going to shoot for an early religion or two for this one. If I have marble or stone in the BFC I'll go for two (Poly > Masonry > Monotheism). Tech will be either Poly > Masonry > Monotheism > Agr/Hunting/AH (depending on food) > Mining > BW > TW > Pottery > Writing, or I'll cut Masonry and Mono if I don't have stone or marble in the BFC.

Build order will probably be WB > War, but we'll see beyond that. Might go for an early second settler.
 
poly - priesthood - on to mono gets you Theology from the oracle. 3 religions in the capital if you delay the settler until after the oracle is in. Triple shrine that and let me know how it goes.
 
Spoiler :
Wow. There is a lot of land up for grabs. Get ready to rex to 0 slider!
 
@deathturnip:
Spoiler :
I noticed that when creating the map and considered "fixing" it, but decided I'd been doing too much editing in the past. I expect one of our neighbours might try to claim some of it, though.
Regarding an early religion: Izzy as an AI always goes for one, but lots of experienced players say it's not a good idea (Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism). slobberingbear is working on an Emperor-level demo right now, having won Hinduism, and getting severely tongue-lashed by VoiceOfUnreason for it.
 
Screw this.

Spoiler :
Early DoW + 3459087304958730498573490875 tiles for another AI = go to hell.

Can't win them all I guess, but handing 1/7 AIs a freebie 25% world land/pop and THEN a peacevassal on top of that while another keeps you at bay early wasn't what I was expecting.

The most interesting thing was how toku kept up in tech at war while suiciding units at <10% of them winning. When I pushed into his territory, he was able to produce enough units in reserve while I traveled that he could wipe out my stack that had been massing in my garrison city.

I could have won this anyway if it weren't for HC getting 25% of the world's land without trying for it (I mashed expansion and got about 15/16% which is more reasonable). Maybe I could have won even then, until the AI permanently allied another AI in a different religion despite that not being enabled.

 
Spoiler :
Well, it was easy for me at monarch. Appearently, peacefully settling 15 cities while manipulating AI to like you wins games. Who knew? /sarcasm

Perhaps the most surprising thing for me was that I was ahead in tech at 10% slider with very few specialists. Sure, they where only monarch AI, but still.
 
Prince/Normal to about 1200AD:
Spoiler :

I missed a couple of checkpoints, and didn't take any screenies before going to bed so this is just a basic update. There has been no wars fought on my continent to date. I founded Hinduism, Judaism, and Confucianism so far, Pacal founded Buddhism (Toku is also Buddhist) and Huayna founded Taoism (and switched). I didn't notice if Christianity has been founded yet, or Islam, but I don't think so.

My tech path got all messed up, and I didn't record it. Something like Poly > Agr > Mining > BW > TW > AH > Masonry > Mono > Writing > Monarchy, and so on. Currently I'm one turn from Liberalism, but no one else on my continent even has Education so I've been backfilling techs. Using LBs, Eles, and Cats for my main defenses, though I do have a couple of Swords and Axes I build after finally hooking up Iron. While no wars have been fought on my continent, I've seen several GGs spawn so there is some action on the other continent.

My GP spawns have been all over, with one GS (academy in Madrid), one GP (shrined Hinduism in Madrid), one GM (bulbed Currency), and one GA (used for a border pop down south to grab another Iron and block off the SE part of the continent.

I've got the largest empire by far, more than double the population of my biggest rival. I put in a blocking city to the SW between the corn and gems to bottle up Toku, and so far he accepted that. I did build a city over in HP's area, and gift it to him, but do to the religious difference (he's Buddhist) he's not that happy with me. I'm building up EPs to try to switch him to Hinduism to eliminate that issue. Pacal is my main tech rival, but he's behind atm and bottled up in the NW. HP is the biggest foe, but not as advanced and his cities aren't as well developed. He'll be my first war target, when I get to that point. I need to get Engineering soon so I can build some citadels to pump out high exp siege weapons before I pick up Econ. God, that sucks as a tech to make it obsolete!

The current plan is to backfill some techs and then prepare for war with HP. I could continued to peacefully expand into the SE part of the continent too, but would like to shorten my front with HP before I get too involved with that. I also need to hook up horses one of these days, before I get to conquistadors.
 
Sounds like TMIT and dt might have been happier if I'd done more editing. Advice appreciated; maybe I was too lazy this time around and should have regenerated a few times.

When push comes to shove, IMO you should still balance your maps for noble, even if that screws high levels sometimes.
 
Monarch/Epic to 5 BC:

Spoiler :


With so much room for expansion, I spent most of the early game trying to locate and secure strategic resources. In my game it took quite a while for me to find even Tokugawa (turn 45). I started thinking I was isolated, and for all the tech trading I did I might as well have been.

In place looked good enough. I lucked out, popped a scout then Agriculture and Masonry from huts (along with a warrior or two and a map). I got my scout and an exploring warrior both to Woodsman II only to have die in subsequent battles. :( Ah well. Initial builds in Madrid were: WB > Worker > Warrior > Settler

Tech path: Mining > Agriculture (hut) > The Wheel > BW > AH > Pottery > Masonry (hut) > Meditation (starting toward Monarchy) > Sailing (detour for coastal trade routes and maybe the GLH) > Hunting > Archery (another detour to camp the elephants near Barcelona and because I had not hooked up horses yet and needed something other than warriors to deal with Barbs and possibly Tokugawa) > PH > IW > Monarchy (from The Oracle. Yeah, yeah, I know... :crazyeye:) > Writing > Alphabet > Currency > Mathematics.

This map had a number of excellent sites for coastal cities, so I took a shot at the GLH, and managed to build it in Madrid. Because I both needed to grow Madrid (Monarchy) and had Marble hooked up near my second city, I decided to build the (cheap) Oracle expressly to grab Monarchy while teching IW. At that point in the game Monarchy would have taken 22 turns to self-research. Metal casting would have been a better choice beaker-wise, but situationally Monarchy was the better option. Indeed, given the almost complete lack of tech trading in my game, I doubt I would have gotten any immediate payoff for MC. HC and Pacal were not willing to trade Math until the penultimate turn of this round, when I was 2 turns from researching it. Pacal tried begging Alphabet from me earlier, but I refused, and he was unwilling to trade Math for it.

The current tech situation:



The map at 5 BC:

The North:



and the South:



I have a settler at the crab/pig site NE of madrid. I managed to get Seville down as my third city to block off Tokugawa and to grab the horses. Naturally Tokugawa refuses OB. I did the same with Toledo at the clams/iron site next to HC (although I have OB with HC). All three religions on our land mass have spread to me, but I'm holding off on adopting ATM. I'm pretty sure war with Tokugawa is coming, so currently I'm preparing for that. I will tech Construction then CoL.

 
Immortal is haaaaaaard :( (100AD or so):

Spoiler :
Got the GLH and have expanded to 7 cities by 1AD, including a city on one of the 1-tile islands to the north, which is reasonable.

What's not reasonable is Pacal's teching. He had Feudalism in 200BC. Managed to make one trade with him, but he's just so far ahead...and has 8 cities. Toku is a pain as ever, next door - despite being a Hindu lovefest only Pacal is pleased. Could really do with Toku going pleased soon so I can trade some techs with him.

Still, 8 turns away from a potential Great Library, and a Great Merchant from the GLH coming in 2 turns which will bulb Currency. That'll help. Cap is a cool size 13 with HR, some nice happies and popped gold.
 
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