Rise of Mankind 3.0 (final version) design discussion

zappara

zappara

Mod Designer
Joined
Dec 19, 2003
Messages
2,781
Location
Finland
Rise of Mankind mod has gone through a rocky road over the past 3.5 years and now it's time to polish and make the final version before we move on to Civ 5. So Rise of Mankind 3.0 should be complete and bug free modpack which means that we got to track down the last bugs and finalize the text entries (and improve translations) and improve overal balance and game speed - hopefully multiplayer mode will be also fully playable with every game option. I'm not going to add any new things - that's a job for modmodders. There might be couple middle patches between versions 2.91 and 3.0 (like 2.95, 2.97, 2.99) so that I don't need to go over the version number 3.0 ;)

At this point I'd like to thank all the people who have posted thousands posts on RoM threads - without your help this mod wouldn't have become so huge and popular. And I do hope you enjoy this mod for years to come.

Please, discuss the changes/improvements for v3.0. :)
 
Congratulations in advance, Zappara. You've done an amazing job :D
 
I posted this quote already; but it works best here:

End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path. One that we all must take. The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all turns to silver glass... then you see it!
 
Lets not make any hasty decisions. Maybe Civ5 will suck badly and RoM will enter a new era with 4.2's and 5.5's
I cannot imagine that Civ5 will become even half of what RoM is. It will take patches/updates/mods/addons/more mods/a dozen more mods, before it gets to the stage where RoM is now.
If I'm not mistaken they will deliver a scraped version so they can earn an extra buck on addon sale.

The complexity of RoM is so severe that it gives headaches, confusion, nausia and generel bewildering for newcomers to the mod. And for those who stays on the train it gives an addictive narcotic better than any banned by most governments.
I know the last part didnt sound so nice, but it was actually a great compliment ;)
 
ROM has its flaws but it's ultimately a very fun and satisfying experience, and your generosity in allowing other modders to use your material is noteworthy. Godspeed, Zappara. :)
 
Afforess said:
I posted this quote already; but it works best here:

End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path. One that we all must take. The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all turns to silver glass... then you see it!
Click to expand...
Will you stop posting that! It makes me sad every time!:lol:
 
Faster and clean up the pedia
 
It's minor, but it would be nice to see the version number of RoM on the startup screen. I have several computers and never know which version I'm playing!
 
swobig said:
It's minor, but it would be nice to see the version number of RoM on the startup screen. I have several computers and never know which version I'm playing!
Click to expand...
Start up screen mod text is taken from the mod's folder name. Can't change that one but if you start a new game and hover mouse over the flag (bottom of the screen) you'll see mod's version number (among other info).
 
Well...
- faster turns (this is the most important request) <-----------
- bug free (not that now ROM is buggy)
- a menu (during installation maybe) who allows you to choose what features install, like Afforess' AND modmod (this could improve performance by its own already, allowing people to play according to their pc speed)

To be very honest i don't feel the need to see any new particular features, you added already a LOT of wonderful stuff. You (and all those modmodders who worked on your great mod) made Civ4 to be an entire new experience: i would be satisfied enough to discover that Civ5 is ROM with some more graphics and maybe some more speed. Thanks Zapp!
 
The mod is spectacular, I Suggest keep us up to date with RevolutionsMod.
We are playing multiplayer this mod with more than 30civs, epic speed at 1800DC, and it works great.

We got some oos on the way, I guess its the Revs mod, but very very playable

so that is our only concern, keep clean the mp and keep up to date the revos

bye
 
1) AI behavior (it has improved but there are still lots of space to improve)
2) code optimization i.e. speed (gigantic maps)

Those 2 are most important things imho.
 
Zappara, could I get you to peek at my thread real quick? I asked a design-related question over yonder.

I'd like to see some sort of tweak to chariots, or perhaps to javelineers. Early horse units are almost useless, because javelineers are ubiquitous. Stop nerfing Persia! :) Edit: After some consideration, I think just removing the javelin bonus against mounted troops is a good solution. That's a flimsy thrown weapon, not something you set against a charge of cavalry!

With the "Start as Minor Civs" option, I've always felt like you should be promoted to a normal civ with Trade, not Writing.

A tweak I've made personally: Whale provides health, does not expire; Whaling Boats are available with Seafaring.
 
Falcon 1967 said:
Well...
- faster turns (this is the most important request) <-----------
- bug free (not that now ROM is buggy)
- a menu (during installation maybe) who allows you to choose what features install, like Afforess' AND modmod (this could improve performance by its own already, allowing people to play according to their pc speed)!
Click to expand...
That's pretty much the same what I was thinking.

tejon said:
I'd like to see some sort of tweak to chariots, or perhaps to javelineers. Early horse units are almost useless, because javelineers are ubiquitous. Stop nerfing Persia! :) Edit: After some consideration, I think just removing the javelin bonus against mounted troops is a good solution. That's a flimsy thrown weapon, not something you set against a charge of cavalry!

With the "Start as Minor Civs" option, I've always felt like you should be promoted to a normal civ with Trade, not Writing.

A tweak I've made personally: Whale provides health, does not expire; Whaling Boats are available with Seafaring.
Click to expand...
Early horse units were tweaked for RoM 2.9.

Start as minors - good point. Since RoM has much more techs it might be better to move the trigger to Trade tech.

I don't think people hunted whales that early in history (I could be wrong)... Whales are protected species these days so they should expire as a resource. Besides industry has made better replacement products (electric light to replace oil lamps etc).
 
zappara said:
I don't think people hunted whales that early in history (I could be wrong)... Whales are protected species these days so they should expire as a resource. Besides industry has made better replacement products (electric light to replace oil lamps etc).
Click to expand...
Depends on what you mean by whale. Dolphins and other small ones were eaten fairly early on. Some classical references exist. In Europe in the middle ages their meat was considered fish for fast days.

Now a days there is eco-tourism which means less food and hammers and more coin ;)
 
Wikipedia says earliest evidence of whaling is 3000 BC. In any case, optics is the wrong place; eskimos are the obvious example of a whaling culture which never even developed that technology.

The expiration of whales as a food source is political. I could argue that deer, and anything else not sustainably farmed, should also expire. A modern-era event which causes sources to vanish, and perhaps a U.N. resolution against whale hunting, would better model the real-world process than simply making them expire.

I did see the changes to early horse units. I still think javelineers shouldn't have a bonus against them. :)
 
tejon said:
Wikipedia says earliest evidence of whaling is 3000 BC. In any case, optics is the wrong place; eskimos are the obvious example of a whaling culture which never even developed that technology.

The expiration of whales as a food source is political. I could argue that deer, and anything else not sustainably farmed, should also expire. A modern-era event which causes sources to vanish, and perhaps a U.N. resolution against whale hunting, would better model the real-world process than simply making them expire.

I did see the changes to early horse units. I still think javelineers shouldn't have a bonus against them. :)
Click to expand...

Deer are farmed here in Australia. Some farmers do run hunts as well. Hot so sure that "hunting" an animal in a paddock (field) is really hunting. Even when the paddock is many acres in size.
 
zappara said:
That's pretty much the same what I was thinking.

Early horse units were tweaked for RoM 2.9.

Start as minors - good point. Since RoM has much more techs it might be better to move the trigger to Trade tech.
Click to expand...

How about making trade OR writing advance a tech to full civ status?

The AI seems more interested in getting trade before writing anyway.
 
About Start as Minors in general:

I personally think the most weak point of that option is that AI doesn't "know" to quickly end war status with other civs when they come to tech that pull them to full civs. I mean, that the AI should know to quickly find all civs that they had contacts with so far and who are full civs as well and cease fire with them immediately, no delaying.

Because war-fighting when AIs are not really that ready for war-fighting had wrecked the AIs when I last played that option so long time ago.
 
Hello Zappara, growing fan of the work. Currently playing RoM2.9 AND 2.7.
One thing that bothers me is all the unusable items in the city build menu. What
would it take to tell the computer to simply not show a building as a buildable option
if you are unable to build it. Same goes for the worker menu.
I'm still learning modding beyond XML, but it seems doable, and definately worth it.
Especially given the need for speed on the part of the player, particularly w the larger
maps. More cities, more options. If there is a way to automatically remove the junk
options, gameplay would become much smoother.
;)
 
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