Pazyryk
Deity
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2008
- Messages
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My apologies for not posting this in the existing civ5 thread. This is really about heroes and ideas for a new hero system partly inspired by civ5 speculation.
It seems to me that the new civ5 system is going to force units to act more like armies with rules like one-unit-per-tile, resource support, etc. These changes have me thinking about the current FFH hero system, which basically treats single important individuals (heroes, powerful mages, etc.) exactly the same as an “army” unit (e.g., a BIG group of warriors, archers, or whatever). There is a story in the Beltain Cycle about Alaskan and Hemmah teaming up to steal an artifact from Evermore. Unfortunately, the current treatment of hero units (essentially as an “army” unit) doesn’t really lend itself to this kind of thing.
Below I’ve listed features of civ5 “armies” that I’ve read, guessed or just made up, and some contrasting rules for heroes (or adventurers or important single individuals). My thinking is that powerful mages or priests would all fall under “single individual category,” although I could easily imagine some different kinds of arcane or disciple armies.
Armies (BIG groups of warriors, archers, monks, or whatever):
Single individuals (heroes, adventurers, or powerful mages or priests):
Anyway, just some thoughts for a new hero system. I think the civ5 “restrictions” on units may be a good opportunity to differentiate heroes, mages and other important individuals from the “armies” that are represented by most units.
It seems to me that the new civ5 system is going to force units to act more like armies with rules like one-unit-per-tile, resource support, etc. These changes have me thinking about the current FFH hero system, which basically treats single important individuals (heroes, powerful mages, etc.) exactly the same as an “army” unit (e.g., a BIG group of warriors, archers, or whatever). There is a story in the Beltain Cycle about Alaskan and Hemmah teaming up to steal an artifact from Evermore. Unfortunately, the current treatment of hero units (essentially as an “army” unit) doesn’t really lend itself to this kind of thing.
Below I’ve listed features of civ5 “armies” that I’ve read, guessed or just made up, and some contrasting rules for heroes (or adventurers or important single individuals). My thinking is that powerful mages or priests would all fall under “single individual category,” although I could easily imagine some different kinds of arcane or disciple armies.
Armies (BIG groups of warriors, archers, monks, or whatever):
- follow one-unit-per-tile rule (this represents logistic issues such as feeding your army)
- can’t enter cities (?? I think I’ve read this; cities have their own militias)
- additional “logistic” restrictions (can’t go too far into ice or deserts where there is no food for army support)
- follow rules of passage (need some sort of open borders agreement, or declare war)
- resource support (eg, one iron resource supports five swordsman armies; one horse resource supports five horseman armies; etc.)
- gold support (I’m assuming that army support will cost gold)
- can’t explore dungeons, ruins, unique features, etc.
- more tactical “army-like” behavior: It looks to me like civ5 will bring in a whole lot of interesting effects (ranged attacks, suppression, some kind of zone of control, etc.) with successful attacks generally leading to weakening (rather than death) of the enemy armies
Single individuals (heroes, adventurers, or powerful mages or priests):
- no limit per tile
- can enter cities
- no logistic limits: can cross desserts, mountain peaks, etc. (maybe some limits; modified by attributes below)
- do not follow rules of passage (although chance of capture in enemy or “non-friendly” territory)
- generally, no resource or gold support (there may be some exceptions: e.g., reagents for a mage)
- can explore dungeons and other features
- cannot “directly” engage enemy armies (but see below)
- can be “detected." Detected individuals can be dealt with in a variety of ways including an attempt to capture, kill, or put under surveillance.
- can directly engage other heroes (if they are “detected”
- units have a set of attributes (promotions or whatever mechanism) that affect how they interact with armies, other heroes, city militia, etc.:
[*]specific leadership skills: Different kinds of skills can affect army strength, recovery after battle, logistics (ie, army support costs or range), spy detection, etc. Both the strength of the effect and range (same tile, 1 hex ring, 2 hex rings) can vary.
[*]personal strength: Overall fighting prowess in one-on-one combat with other single individuals. This attribute may affect survival if an enemy detects and attempts to kill individual. Individuals with exceptional strength (eg, dragons or heroes of legendary strength) can directly engage "army" units.
[*]evasion: Ability to elude detection by other units, heroes, or city militia. Generally, most individuals should be able to walk freely though neutral (ie, non-hostile but non-friendly) territory and cities, but only a few can walk within an enemy army. This trait also may affect escape after capture.
[*]woodsman, mountaineer, nomad, etc.: Affect self or accompanying army logistics (ability to travel) through different terrains
[*]spells and abilities: These can do all sorts of things to armies or other heroes, including direct damage (a mage fireball or an assassin poisoning an army's food), summoning of new armies, buffs of heroes or armies, escape from capture, etc.
Anyway, just some thoughts for a new hero system. I think the civ5 “restrictions” on units may be a good opportunity to differentiate heroes, mages and other important individuals from the “armies” that are represented by most units.
