Have to have Israel !

It is not plausable to have a another Civ Edition without Israel . The Hot bed of Turmoil involved in the Middle East is Proof of the Importance of the Culture and History of the People and their History . Besides the Arabs were certainly represented in Civ 4

The closest thing the Jews have had to an empire is modern-day Israel-- and they're just sucking off USA's teet. I suppose there was the Jewish diaspora in ancient Rome, too, but that was more teet sucking. If a Jewish civilization were added to CIV, it'd be for purely political reasons... and really, don't the conspiracy nuts out there have enough "evidence" of Jewish nepotism?

Ancient hebrews have some historic importance due to their role in the creation of the Abrahamic religions, but otherwise are of no great importance. Modern Israel is a small country with no global significance other than its conflict with its neighbors.

Arab civilization was huge, with vast empires. Jewish civilization... wasn't.

I say we close this thread before it turns into an Israeli-Palestinian debate. Who's with me?

israel = no

I really dont want to get into this debate...so I wont...but...

First you have to clearly define what your criteria are for belonging in the game so you can judge each civ on the same scale. Is having a large empire a requisite? Powerful? Economically dominant? Contributions to science/technology? One could argue that because Israel and Pakistan are part of the exclusive nuclear club, then they belong in the game (valid argument in my eyes).

This thread is a lose lose...have fun...

Why would Arabs or Pro Arab people be angry at what I posted. It is true that Israel plays an Important part in History. It is also true the Arabs had many Empires reresenting them . NOBODY IS STARTING FRICTION but anyone who would Insenuate that I thru my statement was starting something. Ignorance

Sounds like alot of Anti Semitic stuff anyway . Ignorance . Israel since King David has been a power. An is a Force today. I believe it was Civ 3 Israel was in that one. So I guess Sid Meir disagrees that they are not Civ worthy. An to the Point that Israel is surving off of Americas " Teet " well Who do the Arabs get their Aid, Weapons , and Defense from mostly Ugh Russia China . And Western Europe are protected by Ugh America they would be a Soviet Satelite or a German Province . Ignorance

Well, the Jews are called "God's Chosen," but barring that, Modern Israel shouldn't be a Civilization. However, Ancient Israel with David or Solomon as a leader could be an excellent addition. Is it important? Of course it is, but they certainly could pick someone I'd be equally satisfied with or more so. So, I voted would look forward to it, but not a big deal.

Ahriman said:

Ancient hebrews have some historic importance due to their role in the creation of the Abrahamic religions, but otherwise are of no great importance. Modern Israel is a small country with no global significance other than its conflict with its neighbors.

Arab civilization was huge, with vast empires. Jewish civilization... wasn't.

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No Global Significance for Israel. I Strongly Disagree. The Bible says otherwise an since there Reappearnce in their Home Land we are seeing that being supported in Human History. Since the Arab Invasion in the 50s the 6 Days War etc America has been on one side and Russia and China on the other. Why do you think America is so concerned about Peace in the Middle East . The Narrative of the Only Democratic Society in the Middle East being threathned on All Sides by Authortarian Gov is also of Global Importance .

I did not know so many people were Racist / Anti-Semetic. Sad

Moderator Action: flaming - warned
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

I'm not anti-Semetic: I just hate when every thread about Israel derails into a flame war about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, as noted above. It's not the intention of the author, it just happens.

Domination3000 said:

Well, the Jews are called "God's Chosen," but barring that, Modern Israel shouldn't be a Civilization. However, Ancient Israel with David or Solomon as a leader could be an excellent addition. Is it important? Of course it is, but they certainly could pick someone I'd be equally satisfied with or more so. So, I voted would look forward to it, but not a big deal.

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That was a Civilized answer . Thanks for some Sanity and Non-Racism. We partly disagree but I can Accept that.
In response I would say that the Jewish peoples story is Amazing . When Early Israel came out of Egypt out of Slavery to fight to get the Land that they Possesed . To Build a Powerful Empire . Go back into Slavery Several times by Powerful Empires like the Babylonians and Romans . To Survive a the Holocaust and Communist Russia . Then to Regain there Home Land as Contrversial as it may be they did. Then to have Prospered Economically and Miltiraly in the Midst of Hostility is Amazing . It should Be Consirdered at the Very Least

Farsight said:

I'm not anti-Semetic: I just hate when every thread about Israel derails into a flame war about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, as noted above. It's not the intention of the author, it just happens.

Click to expand...

I see where you are coming from but I we must not Fold the Tent and go home because they are Ignorant people in the World. My statement did not put anyone else down and should not of been threathning.
I for one have some Moral issues with Stalin and Mao being in the game being they were Brutal Murderers. But I am fine with it because they are a part of History . So if this game is a True History Simulation in a sort than Israel have to be in it . I Love the Series but this Israel would be a Great Addition !

Cebird, thank you for not bashing my answer and giving your opinion. For Israel, I don't think you can argue for or against them unless you have someone to argue against. For instance, between Israel and the US, I'd rather have the US. Between Israel and Canada, I'd much prefer Israel.

Modern Israel is not a Civilization. The people of the Jews have done some amazing things such as surviving Holocaust. The hand of God was upon them for sure. However, this does not mean that they were truly a civilization. They lived in Germany, France, and other countries.

Ancient Israel drove out the Canaanites, secured their nation against innumerable odds, held it for hundreds of years against all odds, and only fell because, due to their falling away, God withdrew his protection.

Of course, one argument AGAINST their inclusion is that their very existence happened because of God, and miriculous victories giving them their land. That being said, Joshua was a great military leader, the Judges were great leaders, David and Solomon were great leaders.

If they included Modern Israel, it wouldn't bother me outright, but whoever they left out to include them would dissappoint me most likely. I don't think Modern Israel is truly "A civilization," to grace the top 18.

Ancient Israel? Not too sure. Depends on who gets cut to include them. I think they would be a pretty good addition. Personally, I'd like to see King David their leader, a warlike leader I'd believe to be more interesting than a wealthy Solomon. And he was a better king.

Did you call me anti semitic?

Woah.... you're saying that Jewish civilization is significant to earth's history because some ancient book says it is, and because of a religious prophecy?

And that history is caused by divine intervention?

And that if I disagree, I'm an anti-semite?

Your ignorance is breath-taking. Mods, close this thread.

I didn't call anyone Anti-Semite. I do not believe you are. Yes, they are significant to history. The question is more, significant enough? I believe hypothetically. Top 18? Up to the makers of the game. I wouldn't be appalled if I didn't see them or dancing for joy if I did.

Also, when the Forum rules say "Freedom of speech doesn't apply here," they really mean, "Don't insult other people," you're still allowed to have your opinion. And whether what you said was directed at me or not, it was insulting. Don't demand the closure of a thread because of other peoples "Idiocy." I think that is an interesting discussion, and that it is worth discussing, without antisemitism, insulting, exc.