z0wb13
undead
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2009
- Messages
- 657
i try to save as many forests as possible in OCC games, while bee-lining medicine. then run representation, caste, environmentalism and pacifism, build national park and hope for as few great artists as possible. here are some comparisons between approaches to a heavily forested starting location, assuming you are running bureaucracy, representation and caste, and are at pop 20 with all techs and buildings:
all cities are food neutral.
environmentalism, with forest preserves and NP:
53
, 112
, 16 specialists, 724 max 
state property, w/ watermills, workshops and windmills plus globe theater:
33
, 208
, no specialists, 379 max 
state property, w/ lumber mills and GT:
17
, 205
, no specialists, 284 max 
or farm everything, except marble, and grow to size 27:
19
, 85
, 8 specialists, 351 max
, 32
farm everything, build NP and GT, and grow to size 34:
34
, 93
, 14 specialists, 495 max 
cottage-spam, SP & US (+50% capitol>+2 gold per town)
91
, 130
, no specialists, 606 max
leave some forests, trade for
resources, shrink to size 17
12
, 46
, 9 specialist, 277 max 
some thoughts:
(the screenie is w/ stdetoh)
the best numbers for me, especially on a OCC, are hands down the first option, which is 15 forest preserves, 1 riverside windmill and a farm on the elephants. with 16 specialists, you will be awash in :GPP: and you get the best science output to boot. but there are some major caveats. if this were a regular game, i would have to use both national wonders slots for oxford and NP to get that kind of
output, consequently you couldn't also get the NE, decreasing the effectiveness of specialists. another thing to think about is that although bureaucracy is better in OCC than free speech, bigger empires will likely find it the reverse. most large empires will also tend to do better with free markets, especially with corporations, which i didn't even mention.
but the biggest problem here would be finding the time and tiles to grow to pop 20 in the first place. grassland forests aren't too bad at food neutral, but everything else will slow you down. it also means that you are limited to an unirrigated corn until you figure out how to do some clever chaining.
this course means that you seriously nerf the ironworks, which is a questionable choice. on this map, there is no iron, until you hit legendary culture, nor coal, ever. or oil, sans standard ethanol, so state property becomes a nonstarter. cottage spam does no better for research than NP specialists, and offers no opportunities for great people. plus they take forever. so all you really have to decide is whether you want production or research, and arguably there is enough production for most of your needs just from the ivory, marble and riverside plains hill if you mine it.
you might not need the globe theatre at all, depending on trades, but the NP with lots of forests is a good way to solve all your
problems.
Spoiler :

all cities are food neutral.
environmentalism, with forest preserves and NP:
53



state property, w/ watermills, workshops and windmills plus globe theater:
33



state property, w/ lumber mills and GT:
17



or farm everything, except marble, and grow to size 27:
19




farm everything, build NP and GT, and grow to size 34:
34



cottage-spam, SP & US (+50% capitol>+2 gold per town)
91



leave some forests, trade for


12



some thoughts:
Spoiler :

(the screenie is w/ stdetoh)
the best numbers for me, especially on a OCC, are hands down the first option, which is 15 forest preserves, 1 riverside windmill and a farm on the elephants. with 16 specialists, you will be awash in :GPP: and you get the best science output to boot. but there are some major caveats. if this were a regular game, i would have to use both national wonders slots for oxford and NP to get that kind of

but the biggest problem here would be finding the time and tiles to grow to pop 20 in the first place. grassland forests aren't too bad at food neutral, but everything else will slow you down. it also means that you are limited to an unirrigated corn until you figure out how to do some clever chaining.
this course means that you seriously nerf the ironworks, which is a questionable choice. on this map, there is no iron, until you hit legendary culture, nor coal, ever. or oil, sans standard ethanol, so state property becomes a nonstarter. cottage spam does no better for research than NP specialists, and offers no opportunities for great people. plus they take forever. so all you really have to decide is whether you want production or research, and arguably there is enough production for most of your needs just from the ivory, marble and riverside plains hill if you mine it.
you might not need the globe theatre at all, depending on trades, but the NP with lots of forests is a good way to solve all your

