LP1: That's the wrong end of the gun

First SG so lets discuss settings first.

The fact is that I SUCK at warfare. I can win Prince games with Space and Culture victory fine but I always end up really weak. When I try to go for a strong military force I end up so far behind tech that I am still weak cause everyone has guns when I am still running around with clubs and bows...

So this SG is there mainly for me, and others, to learn about balance and warfare on a prince level.
I am thinking about 5 players with hopefully a mix of good and less good players.


We play as Ragnar! We will rule the seas and the non-seas!

Our start:


Settings:
- Continents
- Standard
- Epic Speed

Vikings:
Nictel
ChuckDizzle
Cull
dalamb
vranasm
Norvin_Green

Lurker: Right now I'm 4 SGs, but I'll pitch in my thoughts!

Unfortunately, I don't have the time to join any more SGs right now, but I'm also willing to chime in with thoughts.

If you're going for pure aggression, Boudica is a very good leader for pure warfare, in my opinion. Downsides: Celts are not the greatest Civilization (UU and UB), and Aggressive/Charismatic doesn't help the economy much. Ragnar is pretty good since you get to add in Financial. He's probably a pretty good choice if you need a little help: Utilize the Financial trait (with cottages) to shore up your economy, while using the Aggressive trait to stomp on all your neighbors.

I would also suggest a Continents map for a couple of reasons: Pangaeas can get crowded and the AI can call in allies more easily, and you can practice inter-continental warfare (also, if you pick Ragnar, is UB is no good without water). I wouldn't turn on Aggressive AI, personally, but not a big deal. I think that it mainly makes the AI build more units, so they may have larger armies but do not tech quite as fast.

The art of warfare is to make sure that you have a strong economic base. This is important for two reasons: Staying at tech parity (or, ideally, above parity) and being able to absorb enemy cities that you capture. They will cost maintenance. I once played a SP game to practice my early warfare and literally had so much "success" that I was losing money even with the slider at 0%. Likewise, tech trading intelligently can help you keep abreast of the AI.

Anyway, hope you get some actual sign-ups!

I'd like to join your game if you'll have me. Prince is the level were I'm about 50/50 or so win/loss. I like Rangnar as our leader; don't remember the last time I played as him.

I can play on Monarch and usually win semi-peacefully, but with warfare, Prince sounds good. I was thinking No Aggressive AI's though, however how does an AW Noble game sound? Teaches war pretty good. Everything sounds good. Ragnar is good, with Agg/Financial, but Shaka/Kublai are good too.

Map?

This is my first SG too, and count this as a sign up.

I have just started playing at Prince -- though haven't finished a game yet (I'm poor at finishing games). I've been hoping to join an SG because I'd only have to play out some of the turns but still get to see a game all the way to the end.

I'm happy with any leader. With Ragnar you'd want a reasonably watery map to take advantage of his UB. I've recently heard people recommend Darius; FIN/ORG is good for keeping an empire going, economically, while expanding during early conquest. The Immortal is a good early attack unit -- +50% vs archers, and unlike chariots it gets defensive bonuses.

One concern I have is how mods like BUG work with SGs. I've grown really used to BUG's extra information, but I think everyone has to have the same version of it to be able to exchange the save files. Were you thinking of running with something like BUG or BAT?

dalamb said:

I have just started playing at Prince -- though haven't finished a game yet (I'm poor at finishing games). I've been hoping to join an SG because I'd only have to play out some of the turns but still get to see a game all the way to the end.

I'm happy with any leader. With Ragnar you'd want a reasonably watery map to take advantage of his UB. I've recently heard people recommend Darius; FIN/ORG is good for keeping an empire going, economically, while expanding during early conquest. The Immortal is a good early attack unit -- +50% vs archers, and unlike chariots it gets defensive bonuses.

One concern I have is how mods like BUG work with SGs. I've grown really used to BUG's extra information, but I think everyone has to have the same version of it to be able to exchange the save files. Were you thinking of running with something like BUG or BAT?

Click to expand...

If we do use BUG or BAT, I'm afraid I have to redraw from joining, as I like my game the way it is. I like going to each screen, looking through the stuff BUFFY and stuff give you for free. You only play 10 turns, so just each turn look through the screens that BUFFY would have normally given you.

cripp7 said:

Lurker: Right now I'm 4 SGs, but I'll pitch in my thoughts!

Click to expand...

Whosit said:

Unfortunately, I don't have the time to join any more SGs right now, but I'm also willing to chime in with thoughts.

Click to expand...

Ideas are always welcome!
I like the sound of Ragnar -> Continents -> continental warfare. As that is something I almost never do.

ChuckDizzle said:

I'd like to join your game if you'll have me. Prince is the level were I'm about 50/50 or so win/loss. I like Rangnar as our leader; don't remember the last time I played as him.

Click to expand...

Of course! More than happy to!

Cull said:

I can play on Monarch and usually win semi-peacefully, but with warfare, Prince sounds good. I was thinking No Aggressive AI's though, however how does an AW Noble game sound? Teaches war pretty good. Everything sounds good. Ragnar is good, with Agg/Financial, but Shaka/Kublai are good too.

Map?

This is my first SG too, and count this as a sign up.

Click to expand...

AW Noble... Hadn't thought about that, that's certainly an option.

dalamb said:

I have just started playing at Prince -- though haven't finished a game yet (I'm poor at finishing games). I've been hoping to join an SG because I'd only have to play out some of the turns but still get to see a game all the way to the end.

I'm happy with any leader. With Ragnar you'd want a reasonably watery map to take advantage of his UB. I've recently heard people recommend Darius; FIN/ORG is good for keeping an empire going, economically, while expanding during early conquest. The Immortal is a good early attack unit -- +50% vs archers, and unlike chariots it gets defensive bonuses.

One concern I have is how mods like BUG work with SGs. I've grown really used to BUG's extra information, but I think everyone has to have the same version of it to be able to exchange the save files. Were you thinking of running with something like BUG or BAT?

Click to expand...

Cull said:

If we do use BUG or BAT, I'm afraid I have to redraw from joining, as I like my game the way it is. I like going to each screen, looking through the stuff BUFFY and stuff give you for free. You only play 10 turns, so just each turn look through the screens that BUFFY would have normally given you.

Click to expand...

As far as BUG/BAT/Etc. go. I personally got them installed in the my games/bts folder so that it does not matter if others have them or not and which version. So if you got them installed like that as well it shouldn't be a problem.

Cull, I can't imagine you have problem if we lazy people use them.

Why, thank you!

I don't download them, cause I never use them.

lurker's comment: Playing AW noble will teach how to fight. It won't teach you how to maintain tech superiority/equality as you progress up the tech tree.

As for the civ, I forget which Mongol is creative/aggressive... Ragnar is almost always fun.

Don't mind me. I'm a retired idiot.

Trying lately Prince difficulty (won 1 game on SS), but struggling with warmongering too.

Would be interested in joining if you have still place. But the problem could come from mods, I installed BAT and BUFFY, BAT works fine, but BUFFY I can't use because i have no interface when I turn it on :-(.
So if BUFFY would be mandatory i would be out, but could still lurk here.

To the leader, actually is really aggressive leader needed? I would think that economy we need too...

To the communication...we will communicate mostly here or some ICQ/etc. communicators? (if i will be in team ofc.)

vranasm said:

Trying lately Prince difficulty (won 1 game on SS), but struggling with warmongering too.

Would be interested in joining if you have still place. But the problem could come from mods, I installed BAT and BUFFY, BAT works fine, but BUFFY I can't use because i have no interface when I turn it on :-(.
So if BUFFY would be mandatory i would be out, but could still lurk here.

Click to expand...

In the BUFFY mod folder, change the .ini NoCustomAssets = 0 to 1 and it'll work then.

I'd like to sign up, sort of. Currently involved in SGOTM 11 and The Reign in Spain but I think I can swing it. As to the BUFFY, BAT, BUG discussion. They are all from the same team of modders and while I LOVE to use BAT my guess is it would make it harder as everyone would need to be in the exact same version. Normally, SG's are played with BUG for the simple reason that I can use it but if Nictel doesn't want to the save will work for both players. From my point of view there are small differences between BUFFY and BUG. I use both.
As to what civ to pick you can't go wrong with Shaka, Ragnar, Cyrus, Darius, Monty, Genghis and the like but often that is because of their early UU's. Many times it's better to learn to war with "regular" units, so to speak.
I wouldn't suggest an AW game as they can become pretty tedious and it's not how to learn. Learn first and then play AW.

vranasm said:

Trying lately Prince difficulty (won 1 game on SS), but struggling with warmongering too.

Would be interested in joining if you have still place. But the problem could come from mods, I installed BAT and BUFFY, BAT works fine, but BUFFY I can't use because i have no interface when I turn it on :-(.
So if BUFFY would be mandatory i would be out, but could still lurk here.

To the leader, actually is really aggressive leader needed? I would think that economy we need too...

To the communication...we will communicate mostly here or some ICQ/etc. communicators? (if i will be in team ofc.)

Click to expand...

On leader; No it is not necessary but Ragnars UB+UU makes a nice amphibious invasion package though in a limited time. Plus he has FIN so the economy is not completely out of the picture. Lastly I really like the idea of Vikings ruling the world.

On communication; mostly here. That way lurkers can discuss and bring in ideas more easier.

Norvin_Green said:

I'd like to sign up, sort of. Currently involved in SGOTM 11 and The Reign in Spain but I think I can swing it. As to the BUFFY, BAT, BUG discussion. They are all from the same team of modders and while I LOVE to use BAT my guess is it would make it harder as everyone would need to be in the exact same version. Normally, SG's are played with BUG for the simple reason that I can use it but if Nictel doesn't want to the save will work for both players. From my point of view there are small differences between BUFFY and BUG. I use both.
As to what civ to pick you can't go wrong with Shaka, Ragnar, Cyrus, Darius, Monty, Genghis and the like but often that is because of their early UU's. Many times it's better to learn to war with "regular" units, so to speak.
I wouldn't suggest an AW game as they can become pretty tedious and it's not how to learn. Learn first and then play AW.

Click to expand...

Yeah I don't want to force any mods on people, especially when there is the option of us using them without others needing to.



It seems the most popular idea is a Ragnar Continents Prince game. Which has my preference too. I'll make three starts tomorrow for us to pick from.

Ok I made some starts, there are four as I got three river starts and I kind of wanted a coastal start with there as well.


My suggestion would be moving SW to gain more river and hopefully more hills and less forest.


Settle in place and hope for copper/iron in the hill next to us.


Food Capital. Move E to get the other hill that's so nicely out there. Also copper/iron potential. Seems to be some coast NNW.


Coastal start! But a bit crappy with the extra water tile there. Could be beneficial if we go for the Colossus. Also stone for the GW but we probably won't be focusing that much on wonders (if any). The abundance of resources could outweigh the downsides...


Choosing starting points is not my best skill. ATM I am leaning towards C.

Start D is my preference, but I'm fine with whatever.

I prefer D, also. Ragnar's UU and UB call for coastal access, and the coast could be quite far away in all the others. Also stone in the BFC means a better chance of getting wonders like Pyramids, or even just defensive walls.

Would you be willing to turn on tile yields and resource display in future screenshots?

with the start D going for the Colossus and also may be getting GW for that 100%GG points. But that stone, there are a lot of possibilities

D is good; I like C also. If we're going to be warmongering, which we are, we need to make construction a priority. But I would go with D if I had to pick.

D makes use of both Ragnar's starting techs, plus with the stone it will make masonry a priority and seeing what appears to be a separate landmass to the south the GLH is calling. Often, on a coastal start it is gamebreaking.
My vote is C>A>B>D.