What's your favorite Civ 4 Civ? Group 2

I said it would be here, so here it is!!!!!

Remember, just vote for your favorite civ, whatever your classifications may be.

The top 10 overall from group 1 and 2 will be put into a final poll and then it will go down to a final 3 to decide the fans favorite civ of all!!!!

It's tough to choose, there are so many good ones in this list

I choose the Zulu. Go war hawks!!!!!

I chose the Dutch. Great UB and the UU is useful for transporting troops, especially since it ignores boundaries. It's especially good with a financial leader, such as Willem himself. Darius of the Dutch is so powerful it's almost unfair.

Rome all the way baby!!! The Coolest looking leader in the game with great Empire Building traits (JC) And the best Unique Unit in the game with a pretty good UB (Though it would be better with a philosophical leader) and a very pretty color and cool music along with a sweet history! My hands down fave and the civ I play as best!

Tough group. Rome, Persia, Zulu, Sumeria, Mali, India; lots of top tier civs here.

I chose Ottoman, because they're just all around splendid. Good starting techs, two solid leaders, and very good uniques. An early Gunpowder beeline to early-AD Jans is also mucho fun.

I have to give an honorable mention to Spain. The Conquistador is my favorite unit in all of Civ IV; just a ton of fun. Play with unrestricted leaders as DeGaulle of Spain (or any CHA leader), and rule the world with highly promoted Conqs and Citadel-enhanced Super Siege.

Random Thought: What's the over/under on how long before this thread degenerates into a brawl over the relative merits/limitations of the Dutch UB?

bestbrian said:

Random Thought: What's the over/under on how long before this thread degenerates into a brawl over the relative merits/limitations of the Dutch UB?

Click to expand...

I'd personally say over a while cause no one responds to this.





Ever.

Against the AI at high levels - Inca.

Otherwise it's gotta be Persia.

Inca.

Well, Mali has the Mint, the Skirmisher, and good traits.

Persia with Darius, Immortals, and Apotecaries (spelling) simply owns.

The Inca has a Terrace which is a Monument and a Granary, and the Quecha which could be usefull in very early rushes. And Huayna Capac has great traits.

Rome, yeah...Praetorians are kind of weak, and its leaders are also on the weak side. At least the Forum is a great building.

Still, I vote for the Dutch. I always seem to have more than 75% of my cities on the coast, and some more on a river, and with all those hammers from those Dikes...Willem van Oranje has good traits too. While the unique unit can be good, it isn't that usefull in my opinion though. But those Dikes simply are the best building in the entire game for me, especially with Forges, Factories, and power. The only drawback is that they come a bit late.

"Praets are kind of weak"? WTH?

Ottomans=Win

Janissary + Hamman = Easy war without weariness

I voted Inca for its all-around strength. Huayna has strong traits; the Quechua is a very strong UU; and the Terrace is a consistently useful UB.

I'm surprised to see that the Dutch have the most votes. Yes, the Dike is a good UB (IMO, not nearly as good as some people regard it, but still good), but UB isn't everything. Is the Dike really good enough to make the Dutch better than other civs who also have stronger leaders and UUs?

bestbrian said:

"Praets are kind of weak"? WTH?

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Yeah, that wasn't meant seriously. You should read it reversed, so Praetorians are great, its leaders suit Rome well, and the Forum is basically useless as an unique building.

Well, seeing as I always seem to settle on the coast, and most of my cities have more than 4 coastal tiles, and I always seem to have many rivers running through my empire, those hammers are great. And don't forget that with Forges and Factories and such, the bonus is unbelievable great, and it turns your cities into production monsters. But while playing on arid pangea maps, I can see that the Dike is pretty useless. It depends on your playing style I guess.

Since the criteria is "favorite", I pick Mongol. Very fun UU/UB combination to use.

Picking the "best" here is tough! Inca/Mali/Maya/Persia/Rome/Viking/Zulu/Dutch/India all have some candidacy for "best".

I'd personally say over a while cause no one responds to this.



Ever.

Click to expand...

If you still think the Dutch UB is a top option at this point in time, I strongly suggest some time spent considering the returns of other UBs. The Dutch UB is very average. However, on water maps the UU can go crazy, especially with a fast astronomy bulb. 200 AD astro on a water-heavy map, when the best unit someone can put forth vs you for a long, long time is 4 str? Hello, blockades! Or amphibious raids. The majority of the Dutch fanboys don't even know how to play them optimally.

But those Dikes simply are the best building in the entire game for me, especially with Forges, Factories, and power. The only drawback is that they come a bit late.

Click to expand...

And that they boost what is among your most marginal tiles, which if you have any health constraints at all you might not be working.

Seriously, all this jizz over the Dutch UB and it's probably inferior to the Aztec UB, on WATER maps!

Random Thought: What's the over/under on how long before this thread degenerates into a brawl over the relative merits/limitations of the Dutch UB?

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You win.

Of all the civs on this list, Mali is the most chronically underrated. The UU is strong in SP and capable of rushing below deity easily enough...and doubles as an amazing defensive unit. In MP, the UU is complete cheese and screws non-inca or persia w/ horse badly. They fight at like 90% odds vs archers ---> pillage + choke party anyone? The Mali UB is so-so, but forges are relatively common at least and their function as buildings with luxury resources makes them viable builds in commerce cities, so you will tend to benefit from it at least...and it isn't late either.

Maya is also very good, although their UU is less powerful in a rush since it takes longer to get and is more expensive...but their UB is quite awesome.

This was bestbrian's comment:

Random Thought: What's the over/under on how long before this thread degenerates into a brawl over the relative merits/limitations of the Dutch UB?

Click to expand...

And my response:

I'd personally say over a while cause no one responds to this.





Ever.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I think that it would be a smart option to take back that comment, seeing as:

1. I got more responses in two days than I did any other period of time since I started this.

And 2. It's a deeply discussed topic between members. (AKA--the brawl that bestbrian was randomly commenting about)

As of now, here is the top 10 out of both groups:

1. England............................................21
2. Netherlands.......................................13
3. Rome................................................10
T4. Aztec.............................................9
T4. Byzantium........................................9
T4. Germany..........................................9
T4. Persia.............................................9
T8. Egypt.............................................7
T8. Inca...............................................7
T10. Carthage.......................................6
T10. Ethiopia........................................6
T10. Greece..........................................6

Green= Group 1
Red= Group 2

Buddhafish said:

This was bestbrian's comment:

And my response:


Yeah, I think that it would be a smart option to take back that comment, seeing as:

1. I got more responses in two days than I did any other period of time since I started this.

And 2. It's a deeply discussed topic between members. (AKA--the brawl that bestbrian was randomly commenting about)

Click to expand...

Damn, I'm good.

Agree so much with TMIT it's almost not worth posting, only I think the real choice here is between Inca, Mali, Persia and Rome.

*

I've been singing Mali's praises for some time.

The UU allows a credible rush, an incredible choke, successful classical-era wars independent of resources and wearing out an AI by letting them suicide units against your cities.
It's near the top for winning you the game and has no equal for making you not lose.

The mint isn't too exciting on its own but I like early forges anyway. Gold bonuses + FIN leader is also a strong combination if we like replacing production with rushbuying... which I do.

FIN is generally held in high regard, and rightly so. Spiritual compared with an incredible defensive UU gives us a lot of control for the diplomatic situation - we can suck up to anyone but don't need to avoid war at all costs.

^ IMO financial is a solid trait but not nearly worth the praise it gets. If the land doesn't suit it the trait does not shine, and outside of special tiles and a single tile improvement it actually shows up strongest on water maps (or maps with a lot of coast available at least) because it can do more with coast, almost immediately. It is a very 1-trick pony type trait, although the trick is very good. Commerce vs hammer distribution between traits shouldn't be ignored, however. It takes a healthy # of cottage turns to catch the hammer savings from expansive, for example, and hammers are arguably harder to come by early on in a lot of cases. You and I both prefer ORG not just for the hammer savings, but also for its flexibility (although it's weaker on middle difficulty and below.

Despite that, Mali's trait and UU combo mesh reasonably well and Mansa can generally find a way to put up superior commerce than another civ in his situation, with far less threat of death or going on the receiving end of early pillage-locking.