Immortal University 48: Saladin

TheMeInTeam

If A implies B...
Joined
Jan 26, 2008
Messages
27,995
Hello all and welcome to the Immortal University! This series was started a long time ago to move a group of the forum's players to the next level. It is now hosted by professors Ignorant Teacher (on sabbatical) and myself, TMIT. Are you ready for the U?

This is the 48th beatdown on the AI, in case you're keeping track.

We will uphold the university's traditions...smacking down the hapless AI!

Our leader this time around:

Civ4ScreenShot0000.jpg


A repeat appearance, though it's been over a year and he's not seen action in the forum lately.

Here's the start:

Civ4ScreenShot0001.jpg


This is a random fractal start with 1 extra civ in it.

Huts and Events are off. If you don't like it, just plop 4 warriors somewhere in world builder and give yourself 60 gold to simulate huts, and just delete your capitol and put 3 archers there to simulate events.

Copy and Paste of the doctrine:

To play, just extract the WB save file into your worldbuilder saves directory, then play it. Use custom scenario if you want some extra settings to tickle your fancy. This series was designed for people learning immortal, so most people here will be at that level or trying to attain it, although deity players are welcome also. Hell, if you want to play this on NOBLE, go ahead, but I'm not peeling off the AI bonuses. The intention of this and any other game thread I post is to get better. Play whatever level you need in order to improve. Just remember, there are immortal bonuses and that's not going to change unless you WB edit it.

If you are aspiring IMM+, try to remember to add archery back to the barbs in WB. Every time you don't, a deity AI will kill a kitten, although there are a lot of kittens so it's not the end of the world if you prefer easymode barbs .

I do request people to list their difficulty and speed. In terms of updates, well nobody follows that anyway. Post in the manner you feel comfortable. Typical comparison dates are 1 AD, liberalism, and victory/defeat, as well as any major events. If in doubt, go with that.

The save!

View attachment AutoSave_Initial_BC-4000.CivBeyondSwordSave

View attachment IU 48 Saladin.zip

The initial autosave for those who want to duck having to add barbs or possibly use proper colors. It's IMM/Norm no huts/events.
 
and just delete your capitol and put 3 archers there to simulate events.

:lol:


Thanks for hosting! I guess I'll try it...how can I add Archery to the Barbarians (preferably without seeing any hidden resources in worldbuilder)?
 
Did you move the starting location?

What's that name you wrote for the civ? I can't quite make it out.
 
Hey TMIT - Do you have any idea what IT is up to? (he's on our SOTM team)

Good to see this series starting up again and helmed by you
 
Why add the extra civ?

Too many gaymes of "one guy gets 25% land". If I must, I'll do it to balance the odds.

Did you move the starting location?

What's that name you wrote for the civ? I can't quite make it out.

WB re-roll for a little shenanigans for you guys. I changed nothing though, so it's still a 100% legit random fractal start.
 
There's something horribly wrong with the AI on this map:

Spoiler :

settled in place, eventually built the lighthouse very late and this is the tech screen at 1000 AD:

Civ4ScreenShot0515.jpg


I doubt I'll bother finishing it from here. I guess it was a bit of a waste to have taken astronomy from liberalism :lol:

 
@lymond
I'm sorry to be off-topic, but... what is SOTM? And for that matter, if you know, what is BOTM? I see people talking about these and it seems like they're games from which one could learn some. :D
 
@lymond
I'm sorry to be off-topic, but... what is SOTM? And for that matter, if you know, what is BOTM? I see people talking about these and it seems like they're games from which one could learn some. :D

There games of the month and succesion game of the month. There are different ones for Vanilla/Warlords/BTS. SGOTM is a team game against other teams. There is a seperate forum for these just look under game of the month.
 
@lymond
I'm sorry to be off-topic, but... what is SOTM? And for that matter, if you know, what is BOTM? I see people talking about these and it seems like they're games from which one could learn some. :D

Actually, I mis- typed. It's SGOTM and stands for Succession Game of the Month (although it actually lasts several months). It's a competitive team game.

BOTMs are part of the Civfanatic Games of the Month. Is the BTS version. There's a GOTM for vanilla, Warlords and BTS. The GOTM team puts out a game each month (Warlords about every 1.5 months). The games and maps are pretty interesting and sometimes have a theme or specific goal. They range in difficulty from Noble to Deity - cyclically. The team then scores your submission and ranks the players over time.

The BUFFY mod is specifically designed for the GOTMs and Hall of Fame series.

Here's the link to the home page although you can get their through the menu:

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/index.php
 
up to 10AD - advice from the experts welcome:
Spoiler :

Well, I think I do an okay job of getting the 6 cities that I got. Charlie popped down a city to the north there fairly early in the game and I thought he would expand more in my direction, but he had a good bit of land in his direction, plus the jungles probably helped. Charles has pretty decent land, not spectacular, but a lot of resources.

Warriors took care of barb-busting - barbs were never an issue.

My concern of course is Ghandi who is just running away with tech right now. HRE and I are actually about on par and if I get Monarchy in soon, I can probably make some trades. Alpha took forever, but was able to trade it for IW, Sailing and other backfill techs from both AIs. Good thing because BK soon asked me to cease all relation with Senor Ghandi. I chose to side with BK for obvious reasons and soon adopted his religion. (I waited for some time for a request but decided to do it anyway for the needed happies)

Land is pretty marginal here but may be somewhat productive after the jungles. I only have 6 workers and usually try to have more but improved quickly and never worked unimproved tiles.

My focus now is to churn out some units/qallies/settlers in the cap to settle/conquer the island to the SW. Fighting BK seems ill advised at this point and well Ghandi is going to be very tough for some time until I can somehow get an advantage.

Really interested in pointers and thoughts on how to play this. Culture seems vialble although wonders have not be forthcoming. (I missed out on Oracle although the gold was nice)

Spoiler :
iu4810adov0000.jpg




Spoiler :
iu4810adtech0000.jpg

 
To 75BC:
Spoiler :

Not much to say here except that I'm in a pretty solid position thanks to getting a bunch of madrassa's up early. SIP, Early tech targets were Alpha and Currency, the only major trade i've been able to get was for monarchy as Gandhi is whoring peace techs and charlie cant research anything!

Only other major things of note are that I've got too many workers (yes its possible) and no IW yet.

Anyway I set up a "blocker city" to the north of charlie then filled in quickly to 4 cities. My placement hasnt been ideal but the land is good so eh. Just created a beachhead on Gandhi's land, he's been wonder whoring(Glib in 350BC! SoZ and oracle) and needs to go, shouldn't be too hard... I don't care how well he does early on, he's ALWAYS a pushover so i'm happy to let him build all the shinies he wants.

So anyway i'm building some settlers to fill in my space and colonize that southern island. I'm a bit peeved that I wasn't a bit more daring with my early block. Charlie expanded the wrong way and I could have gotten that marble, oh well. HR plus religion will keep him happy. Early diplo is all too easy in this game.

Here's the pic of the situation, heading maths-calendar for much needed happiness, Cap will probably be moved to damascus as original cap has almost no cottageable tiles and is better off a GP farm.
Civ4ScreenShot0101.jpg


This game is going well. 2 GS's by 1AD is a PB for me with a non philo leader(1 was settled then the next acadamied in Damascus). I like the UB, its no powerhouse but you notice the culture difference and the priest slots are nice (you can run a priest for a bit together with the 2 scientists to get a GP quicker that will still have a good chance of being a GS).

Just a note on overlap. I really like the spot 3N1W of the cap. It's a great example of how helpful overlap can be. On a map with no other great production sites, this one has 5 hills! But the real bonus is that I can switch between the cows,clams and corn to feed it as necessary.
 
@lymond
Spoiler :

2 things:
1. You wasted a perfectly good fish tile.
2. You're underestimating the Madrassa. It's a beast to steal tiles. Najran should have settled the corn in first ring.
 
@lymond
Spoiler :

2 things:
1. You wasted a perfectly good fish tile.
2. You're underestimating the Madrassa. It's a beast to steal tiles. Najran should have settled the corn in first ring.

@kos

Spoiler :


ha...if you can believe it, I'm just noticing that fish now. I think it was revealed with a border pop and I must have never stood a warrior on that spice which would have revealed the fish early. Woulda totally changed my city configuration.

Vienna was already setup when I sent the settler up there so the idea of settling right on his border didn't gross my mind. BK can be a nasty neighbor. I agree it's a better city though.
 
375 BC
Spoiler :

I went Ag AH fishing sailing mining masonry for the Great Lighthouse. Stonehenge went at 1800 and Great Wall went at 1200 or so.. So I got an extra settler out before finishing the GLH late. I didn't workboat the fish in the capital - I sent it out to see how much land the HRE had. Doing this I found and camped on a great food site behind his land which I settled. GW went late right? So I grabbed the pyramids as well.

Civ4ScreenShot0767.jpg

 
Liberalism at 1150...

I'm really not used to normal speed - I thought I had a pretty good economy going on, but that date is very late for Immortal. I probably made many mistakes because I thought I was teching fast when in fact it was just the game speed :rolleyes:.


Spoiler :

Early tech: Agriculture, Animal Husbandry. Find the horses next to Mekka. Normally I would rely on warriors to keep such a small area clear of Barbarians, but my scouting warriors already saw two Axes on turn eight and fifteen (in different locations)! No Archers seen at all, but Axes from the beginning...? So I needed Chariots, and founded a not very good city for the horses.

I steal a Worker from Charles to keep him from expanding into my territory and slow him down, and works due to that nice choke-point near his capital...of course, reading the other posts it seems that he would expand the other way anyway, but couldn't know that. Not needing to block off land, I go for fast tech instead of early expansion. Polytheism (I nearly founded Hinduism - strange game, no-one went for a religion), then Priesthood, because I thought I had a shot at the Oracle, but it went early - in fact, it was the first wonder built, before the Great Wall or Stonehenge! Mining, Writing, then Caste System. I decided to go for specialists off my two food-heavy cities, both because Spiritual is nice there (Caste + Slavery) and because I wanted to try it. Then beeline Liberalism (having to research some techs I could have traded for if there were more partners around, Charles was teching too slow).

Just before Charles starts invading my cities with Axes and Spears - I didn't have Bronze - I found a city in the desert near his capital and gift it for peace. I get Confucianism from Gandhi, make a Missionary and convert Charles. Gift him some techs, open borders, and he never attacks me again (a good thing, because I don't think I would have been able to deal with the massive stack he had in his border city until a bit later).

I have space for six cities - two production cities near the border (in the loose sense of the word - there are almost no hills), two specialist cities, a cottage city and a not-so-good city which gave me horses.

http://s920.photobucket.com/albums/ad43/georgjorge/?action=view&current=overview.jpg&newest=1

I only found out about that island south-west when Mekka's culture expanded for the third time just now (couldn't trade Optics before) - flatland barb cities with only archers, a nice present for Horse Archers, three additional cities I think. I guess the other players built some wonders to get to the island before?

I got lots of Great Scientists - first settled, second Academy, then bulb Philosophy + Paper + Education + Liberalism. I still don't know why that strategy was so slow this time...but I guess it's a good deal faster if there are more trading partners around, Gandhi went for lots of other techs before Alphabet and I had to research some techs myself that I surely could have gotten from other AIs if they were around.

Anyway, I took Gunpowder from Liberalism because Gandhi will give me Nationalism soon as well as Literature + Music, and then I'm one tech away from Cuirassiers and going after Charles. Production is bad (not even forests around), but I'll make lots of Horse Archers and a Great Merchant to upgrade, and whip away my specialists.

My two beloved specialist cities:

http://s920.photobucket.com/albums/ad43/georgjorge/?action=view&current=Mekka.jpg&newest=1

http://s920.photobucket.com/albums/ad43/georgjorge/?action=view&current=Wissensstadt.jpg&newest=1

Tech situation (I also got Liberalism on all of them, doesn't show yet):

http://s920.photobucket.com/albums/ad43/georgjorge/?action=view&current=tech.jpg&newest=1



Any helpful comments on what could have been done differently are welcome...


@Grashopa:

Spoiler :

Making a beachhead on Gandhi island is nice for later invasions. He was expanding so slow that I was even thinking about making three quick settlers for a colony on his island, abusing AI bonuses while not paying maintenance, but decided against it - could have been interesting.
 
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