Nobles' Club LII: Hammurabi of Babylon

dalamb

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The Nobles' Club series started out as a way for Noble-level (and below) players to improve their game. Most of the original participants now play at much higher levels, so this has become a way for advanced players to help others learn to play better. You can play your own game at any level and with any mod, but it would be nice to comment on the games of other players and give them advice.

Our next leader is Hammurabi of Babylon. The Babylonians start with agriculture and the wheel -- which constitute full prerequisites for pottery.
Hammurabi.jpg

  • Traits: AGGressive gives Combat I for melee and gunpowder units, plus cheaper barracks and drydocks; it may let you conquer a bigger empire a little earlier. ORGanized gives 50% reduction in civic upkeep, plus cheaper lighthouses, courthouses, and factories; it lets you build a bigger empire sooner without crashing your economy.
  • His UB: the garden, a colosseum that gives an extra +2:health:; this synergizes well with ORG for supporting larger cities earlier.
    Garden.jpg
  • His UU: the Bowman, an archer that gets +50% versus melee units. This makes it a better defender but doesn't benefit from the AGG trait.
    Bowman.jpg
And the start:
start.jpg

Spoiler map details :
I tried a bunch of Big and Small maps but didn't like any of them. Finally realizing I was looking for something a little more earthlike, I used Terra, but added 2 AIs and moved the two with the worst starting positions to the New World, which is normally empty on Terra. I then swapped us with another AI whose start I liked better, gave us a river, and made no other mods -- meaning the resources are what the RNG gave us (and the AIs), and deserts fall where the map script put them.
Spoiler the AI we swapped with :
Saladin. He got a high-food start, too.
Finally, a cut and paste of our standard doctrine:

There are no hard and fast rules here: fun and learning are our primary goals, but we do request that you update your progress at various points in the game, using the Spoiler feature of the boards.

Tentative posting updates are suggested at:

4000 BC (starting thoughts, no spoiler required for that discussion)
1000 BC or so (how you decided to progress up the early tech/build paths, which AIs you have met, where you're thinking of putting cities, etc)
500 AD or so (after establishing some cities and a possible plan of action)
1200 AD or so (mid-game, Lib race, wars or peace, or whichever happened or didn't, met other continent if applicable, etc)
1600 AD (or when you have decided on a course of action and a specific victory condition)
End of game (Victory!!! or defeat, no shame in losing, especially if you tried a higher level. Learning is what we focus on, not fastest win or biggest empire)

Remember, these are only guidelines. What we really want are your thoughts as the game goes on, so if your strategies don't fall into line with those dates, feel free to adjust your reports accordingly.

We also welcome players to ask for specific game advice, as we have a number or stronger players who lurk and help out with solid tips, and of course, we help each other. Replies to specific questions should also be in spoilers, with a simple "@" in front of the person the answer is directed towards.

Special Thanks go to Bleys and TMIT, who really made this series a great one, r_rolo1, mapmaker extraordinaire, for his maps for most of the series, and all of you for playing.

The WB-saves are attached (zipped; they are bigger than standard saves). To play, simply download and unzip it into your BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Start the game, and load your favorite MOD (if you use one, if not, check out the BUG MOD), select "Play Scenario", and look for "NC 52 Hammurabi Noble" (or Monarch, if you want the AI to start with its usual Archery bonus tech, or Immortal for Archery+Hunting, or Deity to add Agriculture). This allows you to play with your favorite MOD at the Level and Speed of your choice. From Quick-Warlord to Marathon-Deity, all are welcome! We stuck with the name "Nobles Club" because it has a cool ring to it.

Note for those who hate goody huts: open the WB save file with a text editor and delete all lines that say
ImprovementType=IMPROVEMENT_GOODY_HUT
 

Attachments

Looks very interesting. Hammurabi is one of my favorite leaders (for no apparent reason, though... AGG isn't much good, but I seem to always get use out of the UU and the UB. Will be looking forward to shadowing this game.
 
I think a lot of people will strongly consider 1SE (or better SSE) for ultimate gp farm, but I always want to differ a bit...

i will probably SIP, that will leave me 4 green cottage tiles, strong food with double corn.
Double clams I consider for future city.

Techs will be tricky... aggri we already have... hmm I could maybe start with cottages? or beeline BW to see first strategy resource? not many hills though
 
I was going to try this at Prince, but thought I would ask for some general advice on playing Hammurabi first (I don't recall ever getting a Noble victory with him).

Archery is a tech I usually avoid early unless it turns out I cannot settle near either copper or horses. In fact, not seeing any fur, deer, or elephants (just looking at the screenshot, I have not opened the game yet, so there could yet be stuff around) means I would probably put off the pre-req of hunting for awhile in most cases.

In general, with Hammurabi, is it worth going for an early Archery after my immediate land improvement techs in order to use Bowmen? Are they that useful?
 
I used to go for archers early in most games until I started seeing experienced players saying "only useful as prereq for longbows or horse archers". Maybe one of them can comment whether bowmen are enough more attractive to be worth going for archery early.

BTW, since Terra is sort-of earthlike, and you know you're starting in an approximation to the old world, anyone care to guess where we're starting? For a valuable no-prize, like Stan Lee used to grant. Maybe some :clap::goodjob::hatsoff:Answers should go in spoiler tags.
 
Played a short little round. This is Monarch/Normal/No Huts or Events.
Spoiler :
At first, decided to settle in place. 4 food resources in one city is a lot, so I'll be looking to settle a southern coastal city to work the Clams and probably work some early Scientists. I also started on a Worker to get the Corn up, and teched Fishing/Pottery.

Sent my exploring Warrior east, and found Pacal about 2 meters away from me. It seems like rushing him is very optimal as the land around is littered with plains and Capital spots usually tend to be better. I also encoutered a hut, which is weird because I turned them off, but whatever. Popped it for 37 gold.

untitled-3.jpg


So after exploring a little bit I decided to rush Pacal. I went AH/BW (hoping for Horses since Chariots or awesome for rushes but I'll settle for Axes too). Also popped a hut for some gold. After a while, I met Qin east of Pacal. It's very much crowded on this map...

On turn 25 I finished AH... and no Horses in the visible world. Oh well, I'll be hoping for Bronze. Also met Saladin to the south. On turn 30, popped Sailing (which is kind of useless for now) from a hut.

After finishing my first WB (and scouting the south) I started on a Settler an settled Akkad, starting on an explorary WB. Then, on the next turn...

untitled2.jpg


Copper! Just the west of Akkad. I'll need a border pop (which is unfortunate for rushing) but that's better than nothing.

So guys, how'd I do? What techs should I pursue next and how many Axemen should I bring to rush Pacal?
Thanks.
 
Wow, nice starting food with 2 wet corn and the clams. That will be a truly awesome GP farm in the long run, with some production from the hills, silk for happiness, and lots of green for cottages in the early phase of the game (if needed).

I won't get to this for a few days, since we've got company visiting this weekend and I'm still trying to finish SE Gandhi (going for Conquest, since I've never done that one).
 
Hello, I'm a new member, longtime lurker, looking to try this one on noble...wish me luck, I'll post soon.
 
@4077 Mash
Getting archery seemed useless to me until I hit monarch. At prince, you're almost guaranteed not to need archery at all.

In marathon monarch, though, barbs are quite many, and if you go for BW, if you don't have bronze in starting BFC, you're pretty much in trouble. I now tech archery with any leader other than Pacal or Sitting Bull. Epic or normal speed monarch is easier with the barbs, but you would still do well to get archery early. You have more freedom to gamble on bronze first, though.

So... if you're going to play this on prince, I don't think you should bother with archery. The Babylonian bowmen aren't all that great anyway, they're just good defenders, but you don't want to defend too much in civ.
 
@CivilizedTiger
Thanks. I did suspect at some difficulty archers would become more important, but sounds like on Prince I should play this as if Bowmen were just normal archers.
 
@CivilizedTiger
Thanks. I did suspect at some difficulty archers would become more important, but sounds like on Prince I should play this as if Bowmen were just normal archers.

ummm...below monarch Bowmen are great rush units
 
I really liked the Mao game so I'll probably play this one too...when I finally finish Mao. :mwaha:

One thing does concern me, though:

Spoiler map details :
I used Terra, but added 2 AIs and moved the two with the worst starting positions to the New World, which is normally empty on Terra.

Does this mean that
Spoiler :
the entire new world is divided between just two AIs? Won't this constitute a very large amount of available land for them?

Not that it might not be interesting, mind you. But potentially very hard on high levels. :)


Keep up the good work! I'm very impressed with the effort you put into this series.
 
@vranasm: SE and SSE are both in the water; did you mistake the warrior for the settler?

hehe you're right...I reversed it...make the mistake a lot when i read only screenshots... today i wanted to finish my SE game, so i didnt check in game...

well then it changes a bit my view on the start... I would probably SIP anyway, but would look for some better palace spot... i dont like having GP farm as cap.
 
@4077 Mash
Getting archery seemed useless to me until I hit monarch. At prince, you're almost guaranteed not to need archery at all.

In marathon monarch, though, barbs are quite many, and if you go for BW, if you don't have bronze in starting BFC, you're pretty much in trouble. I now tech archery with any leader other than Pacal or Sitting Bull. Epic or normal speed monarch is easier with the barbs, but you would still do well to get archery early. You have more freedom to gamble on bronze first, though.

So... if you're going to play this on prince, I don't think you should bother with archery. The Babylonian bowmen aren't all that great anyway, they're just good defenders, but you don't want to defend too much in civ.

the strategy article with basic evolution strat for emperor was very educational indeed... I too now prefer archery more then I used to on noble/prince
 
Givin' it a go. Standard Noble settings, plus Choose Religions.

Act 0:
Spoiler :

Humble beginnings. That's a whole lotta food there.
Civ4ScreenShot0000-1.jpg


I wanted to try a Bowman rush, more because I've never really used Bowman than for any other reason. Luckily, this goofball is right next door. Hopefully his Holkans will distract him from getting Archers of his own too soon.
Civ4ScreenShot0001-1.jpg


We meet some more neighbors. Saladin, Qin Shi Huang, Pericles, Suleiman, and later Ramesses. Religions start popping up, Hinduism going to Pacal (yay!), Islam to Saladin.

I move in with 5 Bowman. If Pacal's capital is decently defended, maybe I'll stall for a while and pillage the countryside.
Civ4ScreenShot0006.jpg


Luckily, Mutal had a paper-thin defense (2 Warriors), and fell with minimal loss. Unfortunately, Pacal has another city out there, and I have no idea where. A worker is building a road northward, so at least there's a clue.
Civ4ScreenShot0007.jpg


I find his last city, and it goes down smooth. No more Maya.
Civ4ScreenShot0009.jpg


The world as we know it:
Civ4ScreenShot0014.jpg


Cities 3 and 4 are pretty lame, but I wanted that copper and to block off the land to the west. Good thing Babylon and Mutal are wonderful cities. By the way, is this one of those "kindof Earth but not really Earth" maps? It sure looks like it.
Civ4ScreenShot0014.jpg


Civ4ScreenShot0016.jpg


Short term plan: grab Currency, fill in 'Europe', and build some Libraries, maybe plop the Great Lighthouse down somewhere if I can get to it in time. This land doesn't really look like cottage heaven. And besides it matches up nice with...

Long term plan: Gear up to take out Saladin down south. Hopefully I can get Qin to be Happy Hindu Buddies with me, and then it will be either Saladin or Pericles. A couple of 'fair trades' have Pericles at least faintly smiling upon me, and taking out Saladin wouldn't really introduce another front, if that indeed is 'Africa' down there.
 
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