On the new Domination Victory and Capitals

It has been stated (gametrailers video interview) that the new Domination Victory is achieved by "taking over each capital in the world" as Garrett Bittner, Producer @ 2K Games says in the video. The old Conquest Victory where you needed to capture every last city has been removed from the game. In Civ4, when you conquer a capital, the Civ will assign a new capital. So how does this work?

1. Do Civs still assign a new capital when you capure their capital?
2. So you'd have to conquer the original capital (London) and not necessarily the current capital (York)?
3. Does this mean that if Napoleon captured London (he wish ) and you capture it form him, you can have a Domination Victory without ever fighting England?
4. What if the London got razed by someone else? Does that mean England becomes irrelevant for Domination Victory?
5. Does conquering all capitals also include conquering all city states?

My understanding / assumption:

1. Yes, makes sense for a Civ to have a new capital to house the queen.
2. Yes, otherwise you still end up chasing Civs to the last city.
3. Yes, follows from 2). Of course can still punish the English for being taken by the French.
4. Yes, follows from 2). Means that if someone else does that, they help your Domination Victory too.
5. No idea, really. I'd say that if you conquer each major capital, you're dominating enough.

Is there any clarity about these aspects of the new Domination Victory? Other questions around this topic to be answered? Your perspective ...

My understanding from earlier articles was that civs surrendered/conceded once their capital was captured.

In regards to 2), I would assume that you would have to capture their current capital, but would only have to do so once. 3) & 4) are non-issues if I am correct above.

5) I would not think so - they can't win, so once you have captured the capital's of all the other civs, you would win.

This makes sense. If you lost your capital, you are usually going to lose sooner or later anyways.

Here's my list of guesses to the questions posed
1. Want to attract small children and the coveted "casual gamer"
2. Simplify all gameplay
3. ???
4. Profit

My guesses:
1. Unclear if this even has any meaning; the screenshot of Rome we saw didn't have a Palace building.
2. Original capital.
3. Yes.
4. My guess is yes, irrelevant. Unclear though.
5. No.

Thyrwyn said:

My understanding from earlier articles was that civs surrendered/conceded once their capital was captured.

In regards to 2), I would assume that you would have to capture their current capital, but would only have to do so once. 3) & 4) are non-issues if I am correct above.

5) I would not think so - they can't win, so once you have captured the capital's of all the other civs, you would win.

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How do you mean surrendered? Become your vassal?
Yeah, but which capital to conquer to make them surrender? Original? Current? What if Napoleon captured London and the queen fled to York. You now have to conquer York and then you've won over England too? Then the next guy trying a Domination has to conquer Hastings from the English?

Earthling said:

Here's my list of guesses to the questions posed
1. Want to attract small children and the coveted "casual gamer"
2. Simplify all gameplay
3. ???
4. Profit

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Uhm, the questions are about how the capturing of capital works in the context of Domination Victory. Not why.

CommanderZ said:

This makes sense. If you lost your capital, you are usually going to lose sooner or later anyways.

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Capitals can be moved.

If this is going to be like Rise of Nations I'm going to

They had this type of Victory in Civ Rev, so I'd imagine it would be very similar meaning

Mercade said:

. In Civ4, when you conquer a capital, the Civ will assign a new capital. So how does this work?
1. Do Civs still assign a new capital when you capture their capital?

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Probably not.
In civ 4 you needed a capital for maintenance calculations, you might not in Civ5... and if you do.. then it is probably a 'capital' not a 'Capital'

Mercade said:

.
2. So you'd have to conquer the original capital (London) and not necessarily the current capital (York)?

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Yes

Mercade said:

.
3. Does this mean that if Napoleon captured London (he wish ) and you capture it form him, you can have a Domination Victory without ever fighting England?

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Yes.. you would have to fight France though

Mercade said:

.
4. What if the London got razed by someone else? Does that mean England becomes irrelevant for Domination Victory?

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In Civ Rev, Capitals could not be razed (of course the only way to raze a city in Civ Rev was to Nuke it, Capitals would survive with 1 pop and the Palace building).

I can think of 3 ways that would work
1. You just can't Raze Capitals (as in Civ Rev)
2. If you Raze a Capital, that civ gets another Capital... so if you Raze London, now York is the "Original Capital" of England
3. You can Raze them and then they become Irrelevant (Least likely since then the 'hold the capitals' part of the strategy is removed)

I think #1 is the simplest, I could see #2 though

Mercade said:

.
4. Does conquering all capitals also include conquering all city states?

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probably not

taillesskangaru said:

Capitals can be moved.

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Said who?.. they couldn't in Civ Rev

Thyrwyn said:

My understanding from earlier articles was that civs surrendered/conceded once their capital was captured.

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The only information indicating that is Montezuma 'surrendering' when his capital gets nuked. This Probably means he's going to ask for Peace and give you all his gold and maybe a city or two

I'm SURE just taking someones capital will not Automatically take them 'out of the game' (Civ Rev didn't have that and it is the Simpler model)... you should need to HOLD everyone's capitals and defend them from their original owners (and everyone else)

Something you DID have in Civ Rev, is that you couldn't win a Space Race Victory without a Capital (didn't have to be yours... If London was conquered by France, and Paris was conquered by Germany, France could still win by Space Race)

Civ5 seems to be Civ on ez-mode so far.

Can we have achievement cards that we can play to give us bonus powers for a turn or two?

Krikkitone said:

Said who?.. they couldn't in Civ Rev

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We could in Civ1, Civ2, Civ3, Civ4 and all their expansions.

Civ Rev is an infidel console idol.

Something you DID have in Civ Rev, is that you couldn't win a Space Race Victory without a Capital (didn't have to be yours... If London was conquered by France, and Paris was conquered by Germany, France could still win by Space Race)

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That is stupid.

Krikkitone said:

Something you DID have in Civ Rev, is that you couldn't win a Space Race Victory without a Capital (didn't have to be yours... If London was conquered by France, and Paris was conquered by Germany, France could still win by Space Race)

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Right, and for Civ5 it's also been confirmed that you need to transport your space ship parts to your capital in order to assemble the rocket. So you will need to have a form of capital (regardless of what that means).

Fine. France conquers the capitals of all other civs. Then I set out for the French capital, seize it, and make them give me all the other's capitals. Or just Paris is enough, when only France and my civ are remaining.

I agree with Krikkitone here, except that I think some kind of actual surrender mechanism is not entirely unlikely, but that it wouldn't be instant on conquering capital, and it wouldn't necessarily mean they give you anything you want.

So even such a mechanic wouldn't necessarily:

make them give me all the other's capitals

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And even if you and France were the only civs remaining, holding the French capital wouldn't be enough for conquest, you'd still need to hold all the dead civ's capitals too.

Ambassador said:

Fine. France conquers the capitals of all other civs.

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Then they win.. or you mean all others but yours?

Ambassador said:

Then I set out for the French capital, seize it, and make them give me all the other's capitals.

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They won't give them up, the AI is not that Stupid...taking their capital won't mean 'we give you whatever you want'... and they will NEVER give you the last capital in the game. (ie the AI will not 'give you the win'... they are meant to play like people remember)

Ambassador said:

Or just Paris is enough, when only France and my civ are remaining.

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No, even if England is wiped off the face of the map, you still need to capture the Original English Capital.

(This is why I think 'Original Capitals' cannot be Razed)

And also that your "Original Capital" will not be used for distance-maintenance calculations like it was in Civ 1-4...

There might be a Separate building that IS used for distance Maintenance, and can be moved, etc. but I'm not sure about that.
They might just have no distance-maintenance

Ambassador said:

Fine. France conquers the capitals of all other civs. Then I set out for the French capital, seize it, and make them give me all the other's capitals. Or just Paris is enough, when only France and my civ are remaining.

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Except you don't have a SOD to move directly to the capital, free form being attacked by shear size, like in civ4. Instead you have lines of attrition etc. Ask the allies how easy it was to simply march to berlin in the 1940s... The comabt system will better represent that type of situation. If France has conquered all the other capitals of the world, they are probally quite strong, since they had to take the lands tile by tile basically all the way to the capitals. Good luck.

aMoralAtheist said:

Except you don't have a SOD to move directly to the capital, free form being attacked by shear size, like in civ4. Instead you have lines of attrition etc. Ask the allies how easy it was to simply march to berlin in the 1940s... The comabt system will better represent that type of situation. If France has conquered all the other capitals of the world, they are probally quite strong, since they had to take the lands tile by tile basically all the way to the capitals. Good luck.

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There's still naval attack.

Although that means they were able to Defend those Capitals against the counter attack.

(Naval attack might require as much Power, but it is probably Faster)


Also, I don't think there is a 'Capitulation' type system... Since you only need tha Capitals to get a Conquest win, The only advantage to that "Capitulation" would be extra 'territory' you can move through.

You should have to fight for that. You don't need to Worry about their Little Island off in the middle of nowhere (unless you are afraid of a UN vote)

So, in a war....
go for the Capital(s)=>they will give you a win and stop the enemy from winning
go for the Big cities=>They will Help you get a Culture/Tech/Domination win
go for any chokepoint cities..

Ignore the Rest unless you are looking for a UN Win/avoiding a UN Loss, then eliminate the opposition

It would make sense to me that the capital is only used as your first city and for domination. You start in your capital, and if it ever becomes the last capital standing, or you have all of the capitals, you win. ( So all rival capitals have to be either annexed by you or raised by anyone in order for your civ to attain the Domination Victory. )

Which would give this scenario.

You and 3 AI are playing against each other.

The 3 AI's for some reason all declare an out and out free-for-all battle to the death, conviently leaving you out of it.

The AI's capitals aren't at the back of thier empires, closers to the front of the action, and after a lot of back and forth, these warmongers all raise each others capitals. And you win, without ever lifting a sword.

That would be funny

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I don't think there will be a concept of original capitals, in this game, just capitals, although i could be mistaken. Capitals won't move, if someone takes your capital, you best fight hard to take it back, because without it a domination victory for you is no longer an option. And if they try to raise it, it will take time now, so you have fight even harder to kill tyhat pesky raiser.

I wasn't talking seriously but thanks for your detailed analysis anyway. I feel honoured for receiving so much appreciation.

my guesses:
1. yes, unless it's like civ 1 where the next city built will be the new capital, unless a palace is built before then
2. yes
3. no, because if napoleon captures london first, it's not the capital of england anymore when you capture it.
4. no, same reason as number 3
5. probably not

I'm guessing that you can still change capitals, but it won't be very easy. Maybe it might have require gold, culture, turns, or a combination of them. It also might be harder or impossible to change capitals where fighting, so when someone declares war you can't shift your capital over to a remote island in the Ocean.