BADESS World Map Scenraio Mod for AND

Introduction
As long as there have been world maps in Civ, as long there has been one main problem: Europe is too small. The two standard approaches to solve this have been a) increasing the relative size of Europe and b) decreasing the number of civs in Europe.
This scenario will introduce a third option: Making the rest of the world just as crowded.

BADESS will not care about waiting times, overview or the humble abilities of your memory card. It cares only about one thing: BIGGER IS BETTER.

Concept in-game-maps

Note: The actual map will look slightly different (prettier ).
Shot in spoiler.



Features
- Genghis_Kai's great Giant Earth Map
- Way too many players, all being different finished civilizations. (78 ... I think. I keep miscounting.)
- Special game mechanic for European civs and Canada/USA to make them more competitive (like unique tiles)
- Accordingly balanced resources including all being available in RoM-AND
- All civs will be probably implemented into RoM-AND

Progress
- Planning phase mostly finished
- Resource placement in progress

Release
- Some point in the not so far away future

Future plans
- Introduction of a new static-leaderheads-module (BADESS cares a little about memory cards after all)

Reserved for later use.

Nice introduction.

Wow, sounds awesome!

No Greece in Europe? Odd, I would think that they would be one of the included ones.

Well, my upcoming project might through your plans off Civ-wise. However, I am excited about this scenario, and will be following this; my machine is looking forward for this challenge.

soup567 said:

No Greece in Europe? Odd, I would think that they would be one of the included ones.

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Oops, it absolutely is. Must have slipped by.
I probably also will add Venezuela and Australia.

generalstaff said:

Well, my upcoming project might through your plans off Civ-wise.

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Awesome, this will save me a lot of work. Looking forward to it

The Americas will still be a little empty, North, South and the Caribbean. Same with Asia sorta, like I feel like Vietnam, Myanmar, The Philippines and Indonesia are all important. But this is a really big scenario so you can't probably fit all of them in. Also will this support more than 50 civs?

Well considering that this scenario will contain more than 50 civs, it seems save to assume that it will also support those As a matter of fact it will support a couple more civs than used so that the Revolutions mod won't crash the game when spawning a new one (though I hope that won't happen due to the high density of players).

Yeah I can see your concerns. Indonesia was on my mind as well, but I didn't see an Indonesian civilization so far and if I create my own civ then not before the first release.
I do now plan to add the Philippines and maybe another Chinese civ included in generalstaff's mega pack. However, to squeeze Khmer, Siam and Vietnam into S-E-Asia probably will only result in crippling all three, and making them an easy pray for neighboring civs with more room. Also: Vietnam is so 70s.

As to America: Well there are two more civs which could be added: Cuba and Chile. But I hesitate on both. Chile doesn't satisfy me flavor-wise, it seems too unimportant to give it the honor of appearing as a modern state. The same goes for Cuba (besides the missile crisis).
There are also the Toltects, but they are just ancient Aztecs and as a consequence would again not satisfy me flavor-wise and would go also in the most crowded area of the Americas.

Btw: By now I also plan to give Europe some special bonuses, maybe through new terrain tiles only found there, which will compensate a bit for its especially high density.

But the concept map doesn't really cut the actual density relations anyway. I'll soon post a screeny of the in-game world map with city placements for any planned civ. That should give a better idea of what to expect.

Well, I am looking at adding Indonesia, as well as Majapahit. I should be able to add at least on of those. I also agree that SE Asia is cluttered; however, I think there might be room for Burma.

As for the Americas, what do you think about the West Indies, Tupi, Dinnehih (Navajo and nearby tribes), Iroquois (From Vanilla Civ), and Piliwni (Tribes between Sierra Nevada and Rockies)? I can see how the West Indies might seem unimportant, but they are a better Caribbean Civ than Cuba; however, Cuba also played a role in the Spanish-American War, its role was not just the Missile Crisis. Yet I also feel that the West Indies is an awkward Civ to add, I only am adding it since it had a lot of good artwork with it, which would have been a shame to waste.

EDIT:
With some more thought, I think Chile is significant enough to add in. It is just that history as it is taught pretty much ignores South America between independence and the Cold War.

As for Africa, a few comments. I assume that Egypt will be ancient Egypt (Kemet). I also think that Morocco might be a good idea to add. I would fill the gap in NW Africa. Historically, Morocco fended off the Portuguese, Spanish, and Ottomans in a short time period. You also forgot Madagascar (Malagasy Civ). No major island, with good terrain, should be wasted.

For Europe, I would scrap Wales and Scotland, adding the Picts, scrap Holland all together (jammed between Germany and France is not a good starting location). The Middle East is also pretty cluttered, cutting either Sumer or Babylon would help; maybe also cutting the Ottomans would be good since they are jammed between Byzantium and Hatti.

Are all the civs going to emerge at the right time? Or do they all start at the beginning of the game?

Alright, as announced a new concept-in-game map is up (OP). Many more civs had the honor and I personally can not wait to get it finished.
I also decided to try to get a workable static leader heads module back in after the first release. It will never have been needed more.

generalstaff said:

Well, I am looking at adding Indonesia, as well as Majapahit. I should be able to add at least on of those. I also agree that SE Asia is cluttered; however, I think there might be room for Burma.

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I added Indonesia for now but I'd be happy with either. I also took a second look at your civ lists and added two African civs. This civs pack really is everything I could have dreamed of when deciding to do this.
Burma hm I don't. Could fit in quit nicely. And I guess one more civ won't be the straw to break the camel's back. I think I will.

generalstaff said:

As for the Americas, what do you think about the West Indies, Tupi, Dinnehih (Navajo and nearby tribes), Iroquois (From Vanilla Civ), and Piliwni (Tribes between Sierra Nevada and Rockies)? I can see how the West Indies might seem unimportant, but they are a better Caribbean Civ than Cuba; however, Cuba also played a role in the Spanish-American War, its role was not just the Missile Crisis. Yet I also feel that the West Indies is an awkward Civ to add, I only am adding it since it had a lot of good artwork with it, which would have been a shame to waste.

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I don't really feel the need for a Caribbean Civ at all. The Maya will get locked pretty fast and then will colonize some islands just nicely, so will other civs. Maybe it's because I am European or because I never watched a documentation about native Caribbean people .
I am totally with you on your suggestions on the other natives however (I initially scrapped the Iroquois because I wanted more room for America but what the hell). Added them all. It now looks way more like my introduction promised. Thanks!

generalstaff said:

EDIT:
With some more thought, I think Chile is significant enough to add in. It is just that history as it is taught pretty much ignores South America between independence and the Cold War.

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Maybe, but I feel Incas and Mapuche sufficiently breath live into the Andes. And I have some weird repulsion against a Chile in this scenario I just can't overcome. I don't even like Venezuela but it fits in too nicely.

generalstaff said:

As for Africa, a few comments. I assume that Egypt will be ancient Egypt (Kemet).

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Yep (though it will be named Egypt )

generalstaff said:

I also think that Morocco might be a good idea to add. I would fill the gap in NW Africa. Historically, Morocco fended off the Portuguese, Spanish, and Ottomans in a short time period. You also forgot Madagascar (Malagasy Civ). No major island, with good terrain, should be wasted.

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Both bought.

generalstaff said:

For Europe, I would scrap Wales and Scotland, adding the Picts, scrap Holland all together (jammed between Germany and France is not a good starting location). The Middle East is also pretty cluttered, cutting either Sumer or Babylon would help; maybe also cutting the Ottomans would be good since they are jammed between Byzantium and Hatti.

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I like Picts replacing Scotland.
And you are totally right on the Middle East / Wales / Ottomans. I was kind of waiting for someone to bring that up.
However, I view this as a dosed gross unbalance to bring a little more variety into the game. Well actually for whatever reason I just love to see those different factions struggle for power.
Luckily there is always the delete button
And Holland worked quit all right IMO when I played GEM.

soup567 said:

Are all the civs going to emerge at the right time? Or do they all start at the beginning of the game?

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The latter.
The former would be cool.
This feature of RFC (or the changing leaders function) has crossed my mind, but I am not even sure if I could handle it or if I will want to later on for that matter. It would mean a whole new level for this scenario. But I also won't totally dismiss it just yet.

Wow! The new map looks amazing. But I do feel that Vietnam, The Philippines, and South Africa should be there (Zulu kinda covers them, but they're different and could both be there or something). But nonetheless it looks amazing. I can't wait to play this.

Glad you like it and neither can I If everything works out with generalstaff's schedule the release shouldn't take longer than say 40 more days.

I just had another look at the Oceania map and it really did look empty (and together with Burma the Philippines would advanced the total number of civs to a catchy 80). I'll add the Philippines.
But adding the Zulus and SA is like adding Germany and the HRE IMO. It makes me cringe . And when confronted with a modern artificial or traditional heritage-rich civ, I'll always choose the latter. Also in my scenario the Zulus won't have the flag of SA like in RoM - which makes me even cringier.

As to Vietnam - as the Civ Mega pack will ship with it, it would only take a few lines in the WB-save and a second in the world builder to add it

OK, I am planning on adding Kazakhs and Uyghurs since there are plenty of unused "steppe" LHs, and the steppe was looking lonely (I took the map as an unofficial request). Also, Indonesia and Majapahit are both added, your choice, but I have to admit that Majapahit is of better quality than Indonesia. You can use the Goths instead of Germany, since I share your opinion about that. Vedic could replace India, of course having a sub-continent civ "in hiding" might be good with Revolutions. I should also mention that Zimbabwe and Mutapa are the same civ, so there only needs to be one. Also, where Zimbabwe is located is where Malagasy will have to expand, which should create an interesting conflict with Mutapa (Can you say African Vikings?).

The only reason I think Holland might not work is because Germany is likely to expand that direction due to the additions of Austria, Hungary, and Poland. However, if you have a plan to make Europe more competitive/dynamic, it will probably work, but maybe could be replaced by the Batavii.

I like the cut of the Caribbean civ for Mayan expansion. It is a good idea. There was a native Caribbean Civ made, but to be honest, I found it to be of poor quality. I also do not mind that you cut Chile (We all have our sticking points), though I think I am out of graphics from Civ Gold for South America, I will browse around later (it also depends if I can find enough information about leaders, adding a second Olmec and Toltec LH was hard for that reason). I am also cringing at Venezuela; other than Hugo Chavez, I do not see the point. The issue with cutting it is that the upper coast of South America will be empty, and I chose to use that Native Civ as a graphics pool for the Tupi. With all that said, the best case scenario for South American civs is finding enough resources to add both Moche (would start in Colombia/Ecuador area, but would likely expand eastward) and Mapuche; but it is too early to declare.

EDIT: Adding Chola (noticed it on map) and Moche. Civ Gold did not have Mapuche, and I am personally not familiar with that native group. If you want me to add it, could you provide a link to a BtS module which adds it.

It looks like America is going to have a cramped start as well as all the civs in Britain. A lot of European civs do have cramped starts. Also I don't see the point of a Polynesian civ. There are so many Polynesian islands so why combine them all into one civ? Doesn't make much sense to me.

soup567 said:

Also I don't see the point of a Polynesian civ. There are so many Polynesian islands so why combine them all into one civ? Doesn't make much sense to me.

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Some of the Native American civs are the same way (i.e. Dinnehih, Anishnaabek), representing a number of different peoples who are similar. It is done that way to make populating that part of the world easier, keeping in mind that a civ requires a city name list, UU, UB, and LH (2 for when I am adding them). I am just explaining some the madness behind some of the programming.

generalstaff said:

Some of the Native American civs are the same way (i.e. Dinnehih, Anishnaabek), representing a number of different peoples who are similar. It is done that way to make populating that part of the world easier, keeping in mind that a civ requires a city name list, UU, UB, and LH (2 for when I am adding them). I am just explaining some the madness behind some of the programming.

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Well that makes MOAR sense I guess,

Hmm... Really far up North America is gonna be really unpopulated too. Sure the Siox and Canada will have an easier time founding cities there because they have civs to the south of them, who will occupy those places. That kind of gives them an advantage.

soup567 said:

Hmm... Really far up North America is gonna be really unpopulated too. Sure the Siox and Canada will have an easier time founding cities there because they have civs to the south of them, who will occupy those places. That kind of gives them an advantage.

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That is a good point, maybe adding the Anishnaabek Civ (Algonquian, Cree, Huron, etc.) would be good. It would be situated northeast of the Sioux. Sorry that the suggestion involves one of the mashup Civs like Polynesia, the more I think about that the more it kind of bothers me, not as much as some of the LH substitutions I had to make though. However, this will still leave the West Coast pretty empty.

generalstaff said:

That is a good point, maybe adding the Anishnaabek Civ (Algonquian, Cree, Huron, etc.) would be good. It would be situated northeast of the Sioux. Sorry that the suggestion involves one of the mashup Civs like Polynesia, the more I think about that the more it kind of bothers me, not as much as some of the LH substitutions I had to make though. However, this will still leave the West Coast pretty empty.

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I guess I'm ok with the mash up civs now since there are others in the game that you mentioned. So the Anishnaabek (say that 5 times fast) would probably work really well there. It would be cool if SiLL adds them because it's ultimately his decision.