Poll: Israeli Unique Unit

If there was an Israeli civ, what would you want its Unique Unit to be?

Conscript: Replaces Infantry, comes with Leadership promotion (to represent that IDF troops are so experienced). Disadvantage: it might be unbalanced.

Merkava: Replaces Modern Armor, comes with March and/or Medic I promotion (to represent that the Merkava is designed for maximum ease of being repaired on the battlefield, and is also designed for medivac functions). Disadvantage: it kinda violates the game rules, as tanks can't get March or Medic promotions.

Tamer: Replaces Mechanized Infantry, comes with Medic I promotion, has combat strength of 34 or 35 instead of 32 (if you know anything about the Tamer, you'll understand why). Disadvantage: In real life, the Tamer is just a refitted Merkava chassis, and there's a certain "lame" factor in anything that isn't really its own entity.

My 2 cents...

Conscript: Don't really like it. Lots of countries use conscripts. Not to mention there's a reason leadership and a few other promotions can only be gained by attaching a GG to a unit, they're just very powerful.

Merkava: I wouldn't mind seeing the Merkava as a mordern armor UU, but not with march or medic. I might just give them a bonus for urban combat? (something like swordsmen +10% to city attack)

Tamer: I don't know very much about them. A UU for mechanized infantry wouldn't be bad though.

Overall: I probably favor the Merkava, but both the Merkava and tamer would come so late in the game...

Given the design priorities of the Merkava, March and Medic make perfect sense for it.

Maybe just March, really. There's a difference between a medivac and an actual medic.

Paw said:

Tamer: I don't know very much about them.

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Tamers are refitted Merkava chassis, thus making them much more heavily armored than other APCs/IFVs, and they're fitted with Mk. 19 grenade launchers and other weaponry much heavier than what you'd find on a typical APC/IFV. They're basically a hybrid between an IFV and a tank.

G-Max said:

Given the design priorities of the Merkava, March and Medic make perfect sense for it.

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Yes but giving a UU promotions that the regular unit it replaces can't have doesn't make sense. (And may be bad for game balance) The Merkava was also designed with urban combat in mind, hence a bonus to urban combat would make sense as well.

Paw said:

Yes but giving a UU promotions that the regular unit it replaces can't have doesn't make sense. (And may be bad for game balance)

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I already pointed that out in the OP.

G-Max said:

I already pointed that out in the OP.

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I know, but then you replied to my post by trying to stress them again, yet you had already pointed out why they would be a bad idea

If I didn't have mixed feelings about all of these ideas, I wouldn't have made the poll

The UU would be Mossad Agent, which replaces Spy. Mossad Agents do not die when they get stumbled upon in a friendly civ's territory and will instead appear back in the capital.

The UB would be Synagogue, which replaces library. Synagogues add 2 happiness when state religion is present.

ywhtptgtfo said:

The UU would be Mossad Agent, which replaces Spy. Mossad Agents do not die when they get stumbled upon in a friendly civ's territory and will instead appear back in the capital.

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This would get hosed if someone wanted to play with espionage disabled.

ywhtptgtfo said:

The UB would be Synagogue, which replaces library. Synagogues add 2 happiness when state religion is present.

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Synagogues are already in the game. They require 4 temples to build, boost by 50%, provide 2 if Judaism is the state , can turn 2 citizens into priests...

G-Max said:

This would get hosed if someone wanted to play with espionage disabled.



Synagogues are already in the game. They require 4 temples to build, boost by 50%, provide 2 if Judaism is the state , can turn 2 citizens into priests...

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Yes, I know that.

Crusader can also be a good UU -> Replaces swordsman, does 25% damage against infidels (i.e. units from other civs that don't share same state religion).

ywhtptgtfo said:

Yes, I know that.

Crusader can also be a good UU -> Replaces swordsman, does 25% damage against infidels (i.e. units from other civs that don't share same state religion).

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Ummm... Crusaders were European Christians.

G-Max said:

...Disadvantage: it kinda violates the game rules, as tanks can't get March or Medic promotions.

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No problem, the game does this too. Melee units usually can't get Guerilla promotions, yet Gallic Swordsmen get them for free.

UU: Maccabee (Replaces Swordsman, Start with Guerilla I)

Dumanios said:

UU: Maccabee (Replaces Swordsman, Start with Guerilla I)

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Good one!

See, I know nothing about the Torah/Bible, so I didn't know what Maccabees were. However, Swordsmen are dedicated city assault units, and (according to the Wiki I just read) the Maccabees were guerrilas, so shouldn't Axemen or some other anti-unit unit like that make more sense?

G-Max said:

Good one!

See, I know nothing about the Torah/Bible, so I didn't know what Maccabees were. However, Swordsmen are dedicated city assault units, and (according to the Wiki I just read) the Maccabees were guerrilas, so shouldn't Axemen or some other anti-unit unit like that make more sense?

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Axeman, no anti-unitcombat bonuses, but Guerilla I and Woodsman I

Ancient israeli warfare is largely described by the word guerrilla. The different tribes had different specializations and units were formed respectively to these unique traits. The beginning of israel featured poor organization and poorly equipped fighters and most warring was done with household articles and farm implements. Metal being largely unavailable due to the philistine monopoly on iron metallurgy that pretty much dictates that if the UU is to be an ancient unit, it's going to be an archer replacement as the slinger.

Benjamite Slinger (replaces Archer)

3
2 movement (+1)
Cost 25
1 First strike
+50% City Defense
+25% Hills Strength (usually just Hills defense)
20% Chance to withdraw from combat (+20%)
Ignores Terrain movement costs.

So, it's basically an Impi archer who can withdraw from combat and actually become a minor force in skirmishing through G3 and at any rate be a very mobile defensive unit for the early israeli empire. While it has considerable bonuses over a regular Archer, it's still not the best out there.

As far as the UB is concerned, I'd say the Kibbutz.

Kibbutz (Replaces Hospital)

+3
Heals units extra 10% damage/turn
+1 & for plains tiles

Strong? Definitely. Balanced out by the fact that it comes very late and involves a building that not every city would otherwise build. It would enable Israel to kick into high gear late, which it obviously should be able to do and giving it an early UU paired with a late UB reflects the history Israel has.

Another possible UU is:

Dirty bomb -> Replaces tactical nuke. Can be built even if nuclear non-proliferation treaty is active.

ywhtptgtfo said:

Another possible UU is:

Dirty bomb -> Replaces tactical nuke. Can be built even if nuclear non-proliferation treaty is active.

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Way too powerful then.

Fleme said:

philistine monopoly on iron metallurgy

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What about bronze?

^Ancient Israeli military was specialized from tribes. Some tribes were good with the spear, some with the sling and others with the bow. They had swords (stabbing swords) but they weren't made of iron because they simply did not have access to the technology as it was a closely guarded secret at that time - and for a good reason. All in all a sword was somewhat uncommon as far as weaponry went if I understand it right.

You could have a resourceless spear or a resourceless axe but in the end they wouldn't be anything spectacular and would still have to reflect the fact that the ancient israelis had no going to the coastal plain just because it was ruled by chariots and armies wielding iron weapons while their army was more of a guerrilla hit and run type of thing.

Think David and Goliath, a sling fits them perfectly.