Money, Money, not enough

Ronnoc

Warlord
Joined
Jun 4, 2004
Messages
105
No matter what, I cannot get enough money produced. Having a city produce wealth is a joke, at best I might get an extra coin or two. Most of the time other civs are broke and cannot trade. Maybe I am just use to playing mods on IV, but this is ridiculous.

There seem to be no money making buildings, or not enough that is. Not too mention wonders don't seem very much worth it to build, not enough benefit, especially when it takes so long to build something.

Am I doing something wrong or does revenue creation just suck? I feel like Obama and running deficits.
 
Get into golden ages, they give you loads of gold.

basically that is the ONLY way to survive after 1500. The maintenance cost of everything roads/rail/improvements/buildings army (especially late game military or if you have few resources) are INSANE. The structures that you build such as banks and stock exchanges (even when staffed) produce piddly gold. I have seen size 20 cities make.. a whopping +5 gold on wealth generation.

Basically by about 1750 everyone is at or near bankruptcy - I even have to trade resources for a SONG since the AIs near universally have -xx GPT and 0 gold on hand. I can understand why the AI is such a pushover in late game it cant buy for crap. Mind you its cities are ecstatic at happiness 50. It seems to spend everything on expensive buildings.

Rat
 
basically that is the ONLY way to survive after 1500. The maintenance cost of everything roads/rail/improvements/buildings army (especially late game military or if you have few resources) are INSANE. The structures that you build such as banks and stock exchanges (even when staffed) produce piddly gold. I have seen size 20 cities make.. a whopping +5 gold on wealth generation.

Basically by about 1750 everyone is at or near bankruptcy - I even have to trade resources for a SONG since the AIs near universally have -xx GPT and 0 gold on hand. I can understand why the AI is such a pushover in late game it cant buy for crap. Mind you its cities are ecstatic at happiness 50. It seems to spend everything on expensive buildings.

Rat

How many roads are you making? Also, are you making buildings that your city does not need? For example, barracks in cities that do not produce units?

I have, however, found that I have a few cities each game dedicated to gold regardless of how I'm playing. However, I've also found that trade routes provide HUGE bonuses.
 
How many roads are you making? Also, are you making buildings that your city does not need? For example, barracks in cities that do not produce units?

Very few just enough to make trade connections. I build a lot of improvements like mines and farms for future use. I don't think those cost. The problem isn't roads I think. The debt issue doesn't really become an problem until mid-late game. The problem is costs for everything by then outpace all means of gold production. It is VERY easy making gold in the early game but next to impossible in end game periods.

I can survive, but the AIs universally bankrupt themselves; despite being deliriously happy at 40++. /boggle

Rat
 
My first full game I had a lot of trouble with money. 2nd playthrough I controlled my workers carefully. I picked which tiles to upgrade, what to upgrade, what roads to build, didn't go back to an old Civ3 habit of building everything everywhere and voila. Both games as Greece - Game 1, -40 gold in 2000AD. Game 2, +241 gold in 2000AD, roughly same amount of cities and units. Not entirely subjective but automating everything and spamming improvements doesn't help. Think about it like this - 10 buildings can be 30 maintenance per turn. Add in roads, units, and each city can hit about -50 a turn before they make a penny!

I've noticed the AI can struggle at times - except china, oddly.
 
How many roads are you making? Also, are you making buildings that your city does not need? For example, barracks in cities that do not produce units?
Yeah, keep roads and buildings to an absolute minimum. Often it's better to build harbors than roads if you don't mind the lack of military speed in your homeland.

I never rushbuy either, unless it is absolutely necessary.

In my current game I'm raking in 150 gold per turn (@1850AD), so it is possible.
Although I need to spend all that money on the 15-or-so city slaves states.

Getting good social policies also help a lot.
 
Very few just enough to make trade connections. I build a lot of improvements like mines and farms for future use. I don't think those cost. The problem isn't roads I think. The debt issue doesn't really become an problem until mid-late game. The problem is costs for everything by then outpace all means of gold production. It is VERY easy making gold in the early game but next to impossible in end game periods.

I can survive, but the AIs universally bankrupt themselves; despite being deliriously happy at 40++. /boggle

Rat

I believe that those improvements do cost money, unless Tile Improvements only apply to raods. I'll test this in my next game.
 
I think the lack of an economic boosting technology in modern era is hurting.
 
The game I just finished minutes ago saw me heavily in debt due to a huge army I amassed to take down Russia. I set my sights on France, the last guy left on my continent but my happiness took a huge dive after taking on about 8 puppets so I elected to disband about half my army to set the balance right but it was a struggle with my large empire. Maybe 15 puppets and my 5 cities I built.
 
Money! Money! My kingdom for more money!!
 
I agree that building wealth does very little good. It seems nerfed compared to Civ4. I recommend building fishing boats and putting them on your water resources (fish, whales, etc.). They bring in a ton of money! Also make sure you keep roads to a minimum and make sure every city is connected to the capital city. Enact social policies that bring in more gold. And of course build the 'money making' buildings.
Forgot to say don't keep military units around that you don't need. And disband the obsolete ones. And also, spam Trading Posts.
 
I am sorry but in roder to be broke you management must be HORIBAD.Currently I`m with Rome and have total of 19 cities 7 of which puppy-states.And my income is 84 gold per turn.

Key to success.DONT BUILD STUFF THAT IS NOT DIRECTLY LINKED TO THE WAY YOU WANT TO TAKE THE VICTORY!

Follow that and prosper. :)
 
"The defining moment for the world's economies was the fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989, revealing a state of economic ruin behind the iron curtain far beyond the expectations of most knowledgeable Western economists. Central planning was exposed as an unredeemable failure. ... " - Alan Greenspan in 'The Age of Turbulence'

One wonders how deeply Civilization programmers understanding of Adam Smith really is? Is the Laffer Curve accounted for?

Try cutting out unnecessary city, municipal works expansion. Too many railroads? Too many unproductive municipal entities? ... Does it really help to micro-manage local economies without significant capital and capitalist appreciation?

Bigger Q&A: What is the optimum balance between auto-run of economic productivity v. military/industrial complex manipulation?

Nutteria: "DONT BUILD STUFF THAT IS NOT DIRECTLY LINKED TO THE WAY YOU WANT TO TAKE THE VICTORY! ..." ... seems like a plan :goodjob:
 
Don't over expand and don't build things unless you need to. I play as Arabia, their Bazaar is absolutely awesome. on Marathon I get 10 GPT for my each excess resource. an' since I get double resources... I am always swimming in gold.
 
Few things that need to be added in with future patches in relation to money:

Social policies need to do more for money. Money generating/cost cutting measures are very weak in the social policy trees. Even commerce leaves much to be desired.

Unit maintenance needs to be fixed. It's too high. Not only does it prevent me from having a big enough army or ever even wanting to make one, but it keeps the AI from building massive armies as well. This game was supposed to be having good combat but I've gotten by with early war/barb fighting. If the AI isn't declaring war on me once one Prince level, the game isn't about war. I'd like to see unit maintenance costs cut in half. Double the troops seems to at least make a chance for some good tactical combat. I shouldn't be paying 100 gold per turn for a few workers and what I'd consider a small army.

Trade routes. Now, I have no problem with the cost/benefits. The problem I have is that if I don't build my capital on the ocean, I can't build a trade route with a harbor. On a large map with a spread out empire it seems almost impossible to generate much income at all via trade routes if you didn't start on the ocean.

Puppet states. They need to not be so idiotic in their production choices. Now I know we're not supposed to be able to control them and this was one of the reasons that we should want to. But the game has put such negative incentives on annexing a city that you almost have to puppet most cities if you ever want to get any more social policies and not be in horrible unhappiness. Or you could raze, but frankly a Civ game where all cities except capitals are razed seems very bland to me. The map should fill up with cities as the game goes on. Not clear out. This isn't just a realism issue, it's a game play issue....Anyway, since puppets never build units, why do they keep insisting on building military buildings like forges are barracks when they haven't built a market yet and I'm at -2 gold per turn? If you don't want us to control them, at least let us give the governor a general idea of what to do. Or fix the governor so he's not so wasteful and stupid. OR best possible, fix happiness so that it's not so horrible to have lots of cities.

Wonders. Most of the economic ones do things to cut expenses. Reducing tile purchases, etc. Outside of Colossus, do any of them actually increase income? If patching doesn't cut it for this, at least add some DLC wonders that boost income.

Barbs. The gold they provide needs to scale with their unit level. At least then they wouldn't become such a waste late game. Golds value scales to the time in the game. Early game that 30 gold is huge. Late game, you can potentially add or lose 30 gold per turn simply by what units you build/lose. I'm not suggesting anything drastic. Maybe a 25% increase in gold from barb encampments for each "era" they advance. To go along with this, consider slightly cutting the boost the Songhai get from barb encampments. They are already overpowered.

If I forgot anything feel free to add.
 
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