Is Oligarchy + Himeji Castle OP ?

Babri

Babri

Emperor
Joined
Apr 16, 2010
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Location
Pakistan
Today I was playing on Tiny Map, Prince Difficulty. I declared war on Alexander because he was building lots of cities near me blocking my further expansion. I was quite advanced compared to him but still my rifles had trouble with his muskets because his troops were getting MASSIVE bonus of 58%. Unfortunately many of his cities were in hilly areas & I could not use my cannons properly. It was not until I started creating artillery & destroying him. A very tough fight though which I could have lost. And to my surprise his crossbows were doing a damage of 4-5 to my infantry with 36:c5strength:. :(
So how do you people conquer a civ who has built Himeji Castle & adopted Oligarchy ?
 
Can't do anything before artillery I think.

Also either your troops should be highly promoted or you should be pumping out barracks/armory + heroic epic units. Use a GG as well. Advancing through oligarchy +himeji is going to be slow until you get mechanized infantry. After mech infantry you should be able to shell his city with artillery and capture it with 4 movement units.
 
nukes/bombers/artillery

You basically need a tech advantage, combined with non-melee combat.
 
Soronery said:
Can't do anything before artillery I think.

Also either your troops should be highly promoted or you should be pumping out barracks/armory + heroic epic units. Use a GG as well. Advancing through oligarchy +himeji is going to be slow until you get mechanized infantry. After mech infantry you should be able to shell his city with artillery and capture it with 4 movement units.
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I outnumber Alex by about 2:1, I had Infantry while he had muskets & rifles. Finally I was able to break his strong defence & conquer his cities. :D
 
Yeah. I have held off a 7 persian rifleman golden age rush, with 2 cannons, 2 pikemen, and a knight. I only lost 1 city. This is because of himeji+oligarchy.
 
Babri said:
How do you locate in which cities have other civs built the wonders ?
Click to expand...

I don't know about the castle specifically, but for many of them you can see the graphic on the map. When in doubt, go for the capital.
 
Declare war, let his army enter your territory, you win
 
Babri said:
How do you locate in which cities have other civs built the wonders ?
Click to expand...

Wonders are visible on the city in the map. You just have to learn to recognize all the wonders by sight. Wonders cost a lot of hammers to build and thus will tend to be built in larger cities (which produce more hammers), most often the capital. Thus, you only have to check a few cities: if it's not in the capital, check the second- and third-largest cities of that civ.
 
Reginleif said:
Declare war, let his army enter your territory, you win
Click to expand...

This.

If you are not patient, beeline rifles. Make this very early (possible with Oracle and/or Great Library). Pre-build rifles. At 8 turns to have rifles, engage a golden age (with effective city stop growing strategy combined with late colliseums). When tech is discovered, upgrade rifles. Then continue to build rifles, rifles and.....hmmm....rifles. You are not going to fight 2:1, you are gonig to fight 4:1 at least and without fighting rifles!

Don't forget to go honor policies a bit. If you fight 58% boosted units, you can drop this to 30% and more below with honor.
 
The developers nerfed Civ5 as a wargame in the ancient to medieval eras. Now it is a REXing game in the early period, where defensive bonuses are absolutely enormous (from walls, castles, wonders, social policies, healing cities, naval units cannot heal outside friendly territory etc).
 
Horizons said:
The developers nerfed Civ5 as a wargame in the ancient to medieval eras. Now it is a REXing game in the early period, where defensive bonuses are absolutely enormous (from walls, castles, wonders, social policies, healing cities, naval units cannot heal outside friendly territory etc).
Click to expand...
Yeah ! They need to boost the attackers in some way in the future patch. :cool:
 
Himeji Castle & Oligarchy make me invincible to the AI and it feels unfair :(. Personally I'd like them both gone, walls, castles, etc are enough.
 
I find it amazing that a Tradition policy gives +33% to combat dmg in friendly territory to all units but the Honor bonus is only 15% and requires a neighboring unit.

Granted it can be used in opponent's land. Still seems wonky. I'd like to see Oligarchy nerfed to maybe 20%, or just changed completely.
 
I think the various defensive bonuses in friendly lands are to give builders a chance - it's not like warmongering is underpowered in CiV, and I enjoy the challenge of having to get through 58% defence. Just always go for the city with himeji first if at all possible
 
Roghar said:
I think the various defensive bonuses in friendly lands are to give builders a chance - it's not like warmongering is underpowered in CiV, and I enjoy the challenge of having to get through 58% defence. Just always go for the city with himeji first if at all possible
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Small Empires already get lots of bonuses, now this +58% strength is just too much. :sad:
 
what??? small empires generally suck, himeji + oligarchy isn't going to help you win if you have a tech advantage and a huge empire b/c you're conquering all the time in that scenario, anyway. those 2 are custom made for the small empire builder/culture game to let you fight off enemies with a significant tech advantage. oligarchy lets your muskets and longswords go toe-to-toe with rifles, or rifles against infantry, or canons against artillery, etc etc.

fyi, very few of the top players ever waste an sp on oligarchy, and as mentioned himeji is typically most useful just to keep the ai from having it in most games. heck, I just played a OCC as persia and I didn't get oligarchy until my 27th or 28th policy. it's certainly not OP'd, in fact they should probably buff it to more like 50% or something, then you'd actually see more people use it.
 
bryanw1995 said:
what??? small empires generally suck, himeji + oligarchy isn't going to help you win if you have a tech advantage and a huge empire b/c you're conquering all the time in that scenario, anyway. those 2 are custom made for the small empire builder/culture game to let you fight off enemies with a significant tech advantage. oligarchy lets your muskets and longswords go toe-to-toe with rifles, or rifles against infantry, or canons against artillery, etc etc.

fyi, very few of the top players ever waste an sp on oligarchy, and as mentioned himeji is typically most useful just to keep the ai from having it in most games. heck, I just played a OCC as persia and I didn't get oligarchy until my 27th or 28th policy. it's certainly not OP'd, in fact they should probably buff it to more like 50% or something, then you'd actually see more people use it.
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Why not making tech expensive for large empires instead of giving ridiculous bonuses to small empires. :rolleyes:
 
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