Immortal University 51 - Brennus

TheMeInTeam

If A implies B...
Joined
Jan 26, 2008
Messages
27,995
Hello all and welcome to the Immortal University! This series was started a long time ago to move a group of the forum's players to the next level. I'm the only host...for now (I wouldn't mind co-hosting this). Are you ready for the U?

This is beatdown #51 on the AI, in case you're keeping track.

We will uphold the university's traditions...smacking down the hapless AI!

Our leader this time around:

Civ4ScreenShot0000.jpg


Brennus, the big Celt with shoddy starting techs but usable traits. Whatever, as if we need ANY traits. The AI cowers in fear at us and our large appearance. COWER!

Actually CHA/SPI should allow a reasonably flexible opening, so have at it.

Here's the start:

Civ4ScreenShot0001.jpg


Random/Fractal. At least we can get off decently with worker 1st with 2 agriculture resources.

Huts and Events are off. If you don't like it, just plop 4 warriors somewhere in world builder and give yourself 60 gold to simulate huts, and just delete your capitol and put 3 archers there to simulate events.

Copy and Paste of the doctrine:

To play, just extract the WB save file into your worldbuilder saves directory, then play it. Use custom scenario if you want some extra settings to tickle your fancy. This series was designed for people learning immortal, so most people here will be at that level or trying to attain it, although deity players are welcome also. Hell, if you want to play this on NOBLE, go ahead, but I'm not peeling off the AI bonuses. The intention of this and any other game thread I post is to get better. Play whatever level you need in order to improve. Just remember, there are immortal bonuses and that's not going to change unless you WB edit it.

If you are aspiring IMM+, try to remember to add archery back to the barbs in WB. Every time you don't, a deity AI will kill a kitten, although there are a lot of kittens so it's not the end of the world if you prefer easymode barbs .

I do request people to list their difficulty and speed. In terms of updates, well nobody follows that anyway. Post in the manner you feel comfortable. Typical comparison dates are 1 AD, liberalism, and victory/defeat, as well as any major events. If in doubt, go with that.

The save!

View attachment AutoSave_Initial_BC-4000.CivBeyondSwordSave

View attachment IU 51 Brennus.zip

The initial autosave for those who want to duck having to add barbs or possibly use proper colors. It's IMM/Norm no huts/events.
 
Nice one TMIT - subscribed!

I don't know about poor starting techs - I'm currently on a binge of playing only civs that start with hunting! It's just such a luxury to start with the scout - he can be really powerful if you keep him moving on flat terrain for 10-20 turns till the barbs start hassling him. It often makes the difference between finding and not finding the best city sites before the first settler is ready. Also hunting means when yo DO find you're surrounded by hundreds of tiles of empty land you can tech archery without feeling too much pain :lol:

Spoiler :
Playing this now. Plenty of value from the scout here - a warrior cound'nt do anything like this. Shame there are no great city 2 sites around. I grew to size 7 :eek: before my first settler!

Civ4ScreenShot0030.JPG

FWIW this is the best place I can think of for him.

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Immortal/Normal up to 25AD. Immortal is higher than I usually play, advice is welcome.

Spoiler :

Settled in place and built worker, 2 warriors, settler, more warriors...
Teched Agriculture, Mining, BW, Wheel, Pottery, AH, Alpha, Currency

Settled my second city west of the capitol, then settled east and then south, like so:
iu51_01.jpg

iu51_02.jpg


My swords and axes are gathering to try capturing the barb city. Turns out we have sailing access to Augustus as well. HC actually gave me Vilcabamba for free :) Unfortunately it sucks and has no food until I can spread irrigation to it. I half considered just giving it back to get cheap diplo points with him. But it does give me marble, and it's one less city to capture later.

I am thinking about adopting Judaism to make Washington like me. He's the more trustworthy of my neighbors (won't declare at pleased). He's also bigger and shares a longer border with me. HC is kind of a culture fruit who I expect to spam more wonders than units, and all but one of his cities are on flat land, so I might be able to take him with just cats and swords even though he's pushing longbows. Or I could just be peaceful and hope he's too timid to attack me.

The tech picture. I'm researching Monarchy prereqs to trade Currency for it. Hopefully I get Math for Currency as well.
iu51_03.jpg

 
Immortal, normal speed.

Spoiler :
I should mention this was my second attempt (first attempt I pointlessly tried to block Washington and it slowed me down too much), and it also involved at least a couple of reloads when I kept losing my second, warrior-defended city to an archer.

0 A.D(ish)

Spoiler :
Screenshot2011-01-11at11848AM.png

Screenshot2011-01-10at111720PM.png

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Felt like I actually had too many workers shortly after this period.

stats2.png


Not so good at the moment, but land area is certainly hopeful:

demogr.png


I think my two biggest mistakes here were not noticing I didn't have open borders with Washington (until post Liberalism!), and failing to send any workboats exploring.






 
Question about UB/UU

Dun says "Free Guerilla I promotion for land units"
Gallic warrior says "Starts with Guerilla I"

So, if you build a Gallic warrior in a settlement with a Dun, do you get some sort of a double benefit, or is it just a bit of a waster?
 
I might give it a go.

Looking at the recent decline of IC I could give you a hand with co-hosting, if you don't mind me.

That's fine. Unlike other series this one hasn't had a set schedule in well over a year, so whenever you feel like the forum's getting a little slow, tack another one onto IU ;).
 
1 AD

Spoiler :


I kept mulling moving options over and over. I decided to be a big pansy and just settle in place.

I took a sorta-shot at gwall and missed (delayed it too long and wonders went early). Opened AG, wheel, AH, mining, masonry, writing, archery, BW, pottery, aesthetics. First GS was an academy in capitol. Second GS...bulbed...metal casting? Well, nobody had it and I was able to trade it to both AI right away, helping me out of a mini-hole.

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Washington beat me to the SE city by ONE TURN. Ouch. Other than that relations are good, and TGL + Parth look likely. Will try for sistine too, I love getting sistine when I have marble because it OWNS AI culture attempts so badly that late-game time pressure is reduced.



Liberalism

Spoiler :


Bulbed things like philosophy, education, printing press (I was running pacifism). I took constitution for the instant science boost and fact that nobody had it:

Civ4ScreenShot0002.jpg


Though sci meth for higher trade value was tempting, nobody had anything that I couldn't use constitution to trade, the AI likes sci meth, and it would have hurt my research a little to get it right away before the other important bio pre-req, chemistry. I do put a bulb in sci meth though.

Tech picture after a few post-lib trades:

Civ4ScreenShot0003.jpg


Helped mostly by bulbing because my tech rate was otherwise pitiful. The only person who's really giving me fits tech-wise is HC, who is going pretty fast for immortal.



1943 Domination

Spoiler :


HC kept up his breakneck tech pace, and I didn't have the long-term oomph to compete with him. I sat on my cities all the way to tanks/bombers...and he had the same type of military techs I had. He was nearing internet for god's sake though! That means he hast to die obviously.

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Although at tech parity, this wasn't much of a slugfest: bombers saw his stack before DoW, I got 10 turns of peace from all relevant AI, and I let his stack enter my borders where 1) fighters caused his fighters to die trying to intercept 2) bombers smacked his stack down a notch 3) combat II tanks eradicated his stack.

From there, I let my 2 medic 1 explorers heal up my stack and pushed into his territory. I saw only minor resistance from there, easily punting him from MY continent.

Civ4ScreenShot0006.jpg


Next up is Washington. Like me, washington was heading for nukes, but then the UN banned it. Similar to the HC war, we're similar in actual military tech. When he was down to 3 cities, he managed to get mech infantry. Didn't matter; by then he had no air power and bombers trounced the mechs so badly that they might as well have been rifles or something.

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Towards the end of that war, I bribed AC out of war w/ genghis because he was winning it and would soon cap genghis. genghis + sury signed a DP, but AC and bit...er...peace...er...PAssal mansa still declared again. I declared too, bribing AC out with money (4k!) YET AGAIN so that I could get the cap:

Civ4ScreenShot0010.jpg


Somehow, someway, AC capped SURY ACROSS CONTINENTS, without either exchanging a city!!!!!!!!!!

That meant I couldn't duck fighting AC, who already had jet fighters. Knowing this, I added a TON of arty to my stack and later added infantry/SAMs (SAM to beat the gunships off my stacks). Taking Genghis as a vassal was a critical point! It allowed me a "home field" of massive culture where I could fight the advanced stacks of AC without nukes:

Civ4ScreenShot0011.jpg


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This was a slugfest; I produced and killed hundreds and hundreds of units. Sury didn't do much to me just as he didn't do much to AC: mostly just tried to pillage tiles with jet fighters of carriers. I shuttled troops across the small channel safely with transports and had my naval assets go around killing stuff that got too near. Mansa's contribution was likewise minor.

That means that all of the fighting that mattered happened in the area surrounding the city pictured above. I did hit-and runs using my tanks to kill units and run back: one city was returned to GK, but many I COULDN'T RETURN despite them being 90%+ mongolian culture and former mongol cities? Some were former mali cities...regardless most of the surrounding cities got hit-and run burned while I killed 3 30+ unit stacks entering mongol land. I couldn't use my air power...jet fighters were too powerful. With SAM and infantry/arty/mass tank (and many tanks starting with combat III, some even making it to IV/V/commando) I was able to get the collateral initiative I needed for tanks to slaughter everything.

Once the major invading stacks were taken care of, I pushed out with first 2, then 3, then 4 stacks of 30+ tank/infantry/SAM/arty. AC had mechinf by then, but many of the arty were CR III. Out of production, out of help, and out of time, AC started losing cities. Mali died off entirely, sury eventually broke free once he was above thresholds, and AC folded and capped, giving me the required % for domination.

SURY WAS GHEYTASTIC GHETTO MORON. Yes, that. After I blasted his master and had LITERALLY OVER FIVE TIMES HIS POWER, his response to capitulation?

"WE'RE DOING FINE ON OUR OWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWN". I am almost 100% certain that was because I left HC alive. Fix your game firaxis...BEFORE you make new ones. Well, fix those too.

Regardless, I had what I needed.

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Although a bit long, once I had sistine chapel and met other AI I knew I had this game. The AI is simply too miserable at modern warfare to beat a similar-sized human empire.

As you can see, nobody was actually close to winning, but everyone was near computers for SO LONG that I didn't think I would get out of this peacefully. Maybe I could have, but certainly nobody else could win culture or space NOW. HAHA!

So another no-mids spec game finishes with a W. I'll take it.

 
Well, SIP looks like a no-brainer to me. Good Bureacracy potential, and a decent mix of early production and commerce.

Sign me in for tonight.
 
I dunno if this should be spoilered, but I did it anyway

Spoiler :
Well, ultra early dagger DOW from Capac ended this one way too early for me, though I probably did play this a bit unoptimally. Do I get another try, or is that against the rules or something?
 
Multi tries are not against the rules or anything. How would we police that anyway, this isn't HoF where I have a mod that's watching you :p.

If playing a map multiple times is fun, then win or lose play it multiple times.
 
Played from autosave with BetterAI installed. 1AD report
Spoiler :

Barbs certainly are a lot more annoying in Civ4 than in Civ5. But while the BetterAI does make barbs pillage instead of suiciding into fogbusters the AI still does some strange things. Hindu-founder Capac decided to declare on Buddhist-found Washington around 450BC. And the city HC chose as first target was this totally crappy hill-city waaay down south,
Civ4ScreenShot0010.jpg


1AD Washington has managed to assemble this decent stack:
Civ4ScreenShot0012.jpg


He might actually succeed capturing a city with that one. I wouldn't mind joining the war, but I need a couple of more units. But as long as the war goes on, I'm at least safe :)

I settled in place, and teched agriculture,mining,bronze,wheel,pottery,AH,writing,aesth,poly. Empire:
Civ4ScreenShot0013.jpg

Civ4ScreenShot0014.jpg

 
View attachment flyingswan.CivBeyondSwordSave

Ive never won a game on IMM or as Brennus so thought ive got to give it a go.With CHA as a trait I figured chopping out Stone Henge might be good and getting an early religion to build a shrine asap might work.Went MED/MIN/BW/AGR/TW/POT/WRIT..(rest in spoilers
Spoiler :
Met HC and Washington,found some health resources but no happy ones so was glad of stonehenge.

HC and Washington both went hindu so I joined them(nice trait SPI),met Gengis by going to the edge of USAs border-he went judaism so I didnt open borders with him.I felt that the Deer resouce was a priority and with a city there I thought I could block the USA.This is where things started to get interesting...

Great prophet came along and I built the shine,Buddism spread like wildfire through the USA and washington switched religion.I managed to get some Techs out of both civs when they were at pleased,but at this point I got HC to gift me masonry then I switched to Buddism(nice trait SPI:))and now HC is annoyed.

The situation now is war is a coming with HC,but it looks like Im going to have a good ally in the USA.Because of my starting tech path(slow rex) and open borders both USA and HC have got citys to the far east of Bibracte-although Washington is already offering the Liberation of San-fransisco(what he,ll take for it I dont know).I have a barb city to the SE which I should be able to take in the next 5 turns.


Not the best opening I know(taking an early religion is frowned upon),but I thought Il try it anyway see what happens.Im going to try and win from this point regardless-any advice would be welcome.

(i think ive sussed out imageshack so Il try and put some screenshots in the spoiler)
 
Multi tries are not against the rules or anything. How would we police that anyway, this isn't HoF where I have a mod that's watching you :p.
Let's say that I did want to play with the Hall of Fame Mod for BtS, aka BUFFY. How would I go about doing so?

Would I need use the World Builder save? If yes, would I be forced to play against Barbs that don't know Archery since the Hall of Fame Mod prevents one from opening the World Builder?

Maybe there is a relatively simple way to edit the World Builder file in a text editor and add Archery to the Barbs? Would doing so let me play with Barbs that have Archery while using BUFFY?

I'm not even sure that I'd want to play with BUFFY--feel free to convince me otherwise--but it would be nice to know how to use it, since I am used to using it from Game of the Month games.


Oh yeah, and what does "IMM+" mean? Some sort of distinction between normal Immortal games and those where Barbs start with Archery? Or is it in fact the case that if I were to general an Immortal game on my own that the Barbs would begin with Archery, and if yes, then is this "IMM+" designation simply meaning that one is playing at true Immortal level instead of an easier version with weaker-than-normal Barbs?
 
Dhoom - Yes, you would use the WB file. Play as custom scenario and you can uncheck "Lock Modified Objects" and go into WB in game to add archery/hunting to the barbs. I do it all the time. You can also use single-player BUG/BULL and just open the normal save that TMIT provides. Have you tried BAT yet? Great mod I generally use for forum games with WB saves provided.

As for BUFFY, it is a nice mod that I use of course for the BOTMs. However, it has not been updated with the latest BUG/BULL features. BUFFY is nice though as it has the full BULL features installed without jacking around with code. BAT has it all too and the latest version plus superior graphics.

IMM+ I always assumed as IMM to Deity players.
 
Maybe there is a relatively simple way to edit the World Builder file in a text editor and add Archery to the Barbs?

Haha, no. Code divers way beyond my ability have looked for a way to do it; they've found none. If you can find a way to give archery to barbs in a worldbuilder scenario save, let me know, because I've been wanting one for over a year.

The IMM+ thing was a bit of a joke, but basically if you want to get used to "true" immortal barbs should have archery. In practice, the difference is minimal unless barb cities with warriors go to someone they'd have otherwise not gone to because they're defended by 4 warriors. That doesn't NECESSARILY make for an easier game, mind you ;).
 
Played the autosave, here is my try till T81 / 850BC:

Spoiler :


SIP
Techs: Agri, Mining, BW, TW, AH, Writing, Slider 0%
6 cities
No wonders; ToA, TGL, Oracle are gone

Screenshot of the empire:
Civ4ScreenShot0002.JPG

Save:
View attachment Phil BC-0850.CivBeyondSwordSave

Not sure what to do now:
1. Poly, Aesthetics, Literature -> Parthenon, GLib, NE, HE
or
2. Alpha, Curr
or
... ?

Suggestions and criticism are welcome!

Another question: Whipped settlers from 6 to 3 in capital without granary -> good or bad without granary? :confused:

 
I settled my second city:

Spoiler :

On the marble. I built 2 warriors in 5 turns working a forested plains hill because of barbs then took the capital's wet corn and built 2 12 turn settlers allowing the capital to work corn and 5 fp cottages at size 6... Good idea or not?
 
As for BUFFY, it is a nice mod that I use of course for the BOTMs. However, it has not been updated with the latest BUG/BULL features. BUFFY is nice though as it has the full BULL features installed without jacking around with code. BAT has it all too and the latest version plus superior graphics.

Downloaded BUG 4.4 and but it in the Mod folder. Started BTS, loaded BUG but when I choose the autosave a message tells me that no Mod is required.
Anyone knows how to load the save with BUG?
 
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