Research Agreement Blocking

DaveMcW · Jan 13, 2011

Warning: this article is obsolete with the .332 patch!

Research agreements are less likely to give you techs that you are researching. The exact formula is:

C = 100% - 4 * (T - L)

where:
C = chance the tech will be included in the RA dice roll.
T = percent research progress of that tech. RAs are calculated before beakers are added, so the last turn of research doesn't count.
L = lowest percent research progress of all available techs.

Assuming that one of your techs has 0% progress, and solving for C=0%, we get:

Researching a tech to 25% blocks it from being picked by a research agreement.

DaveMcW · Jan 13, 2011

Sample blocking strategies.

Science Victory
Block Metallurgy.
Spam RAs until you have all the spaceship parts.

Globalization
Sign 5 RAs on the same turn.
Block Telegraph, Radio, Replaceable Parts, Railroad, Dynamite.

Industrial (Biology) Rush
Sign 5 RAs on the same turn.
Block Steel or Gunpowder.
Research Astronomy, Acoustics, Banking, Printing Press.

Renaissance (Astronomy) Rush
Sign 2 RAs.
Wait 10 turns.
Sign 1 RA.
Block Sailing, Wheel, Archery, Masonry, Bronze Working.
Research Philosophy, Trapping, Theology.
RAs give Civil Service->Education.
Purchase University.
Research Compass.
RA gives Astronomy.

Knight/Keshik Rush
Sign 3 RAs on the same turn.
Block Sailing, Theology, Masonry, Bronze Working.
Research Philosophy, Trapping, Horseback Riding, Mathematics.

Monthar · Jan 13, 2011

On a hunch, I did block techs in my last game by putting at least 25% into research of those techs. Specifically fertilizer and rifling, because I was playing as Spain and wanted a bunch of Tercios built before upgrading them to get nice the vs mounted bonus. I completed at least 7 RA's after blocking those two and none of the RA gave either one. I didn't go back to grab those two until I'd researched all the SS parts techs.

I figured it'd be at least 25% because of the 4 pointers on the progress ring at 25%, 50%, 75% and 100%.

Bibor · Jan 14, 2011

Might as well add all these

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=405142

Strategist83 · Jan 15, 2011

'Cheesy' and 'exploit' written all over it.

I hope they change the system for the next patch.

MkLh · Jan 16, 2011

Strategist83 said:
'Cheesy' and 'exploit' written all over it.

I hope they change the system for the next patch.

I hope they remove the RA completely. First of all it's really stupid thing that doesn't make sense. It's now strong, but needs tedious calculating and MM. If they remove the cheese, it will be useless.

We want tech trading back, please.

KrikkitTwo · Jan 16, 2011

MkLh said:
I hope they remove the RA completely. First of all it's really stupid thing that doesn't make sense. It's now strong, but needs tedious calculating and MM. If they remove the cheese, it will be useless.

We want tech trading back, please.

No we don't... and there is defintely a way for RAs to not have MM... No Blocking... at all
Anything invested into the RA tech becomes overflow.

Smote · Jan 17, 2011

Krikkitone said:
No we don't... and there is defintely a way for RAs to not have MM... No Blocking... at all
Anything invested into the RA tech becomes overflow.

I agree, I think this would be a great change.

Wreck · Jan 20, 2011

Does the amount of research put into a tech decay with time? That is, is it safe to get a tech to 25+% researched then you can leave it indefinitely, or do you need to MM the research timing to avoid losing research progress (and possibly keep topping up a tech to 25%)?

vexing · Jan 20, 2011

no decay.

Pouakai · Jan 20, 2011

So what happens if you have a RA, but you've somehow managed to get every tech at 25%

Wreck · Jan 20, 2011

Pouakai: check the formula again. 25% is only a block when there is at least one tech which is 0%. If, as you ask, the minimum is not 0%, but 25%, then 50% is a block. If all techs are at 25%, then all techs are equally likely.

Camikaze · Jan 20, 2011

Ah, this helps explain some confusion I was having. I was assuming that I only needed to put in one turn of research to block a tech, and this worked all the way through until when I got Railroad instead of Refrigeration, when it caught up with me. This now makes sense.

Wargizmo · Jan 20, 2011

In my opinion it should only ever block one tech, the one that's furthest along; all the others should be fair game. The only point of allowing tech blocking is so you don't get the tech you're already researching. Making it possible to block the other techs at all is kind of pointless.

kane65 · Jan 21, 2011

I use a mod that removes RAs. I think the way they were in Civ IV made much more sense.

Bibor · Jan 22, 2011

kane65 said:
I use a mod that removes RAs. I think the way they were in Civ IV made much more sense.

Actually, Research Agreements are something I envisioned for the Civilization series from CIV2. Trading one key tech like Aesthetics or Divine Right for a dozen others is just stupid.

nokmirt · Jan 23, 2011

I like the RA's but in my game England was so rich that they had overwhelming technology and fast. Two eras ahead of any other civ. Always did it pop up England and so and so have signed an RA. Maybe make the RA's twice as expensive???

Monthar · Jan 23, 2011

nokmirt said:
I like the RA's but in my game England was so rich that they had overwhelming technology and fast. Two eras ahead of any other civ. Always did it pop up England and so and so have signed an RA. Maybe make the RA's twice as expensive???

Actually I think they need to cut the AI's gold bonus down, because it's ridiculously high. When the AI can field such a large military, pay all the building maintenance, sign an RA with every civ and still have 10's of thousands, there's a problem.

nokmirt · Jan 23, 2011

Monthar said:
Actually I think they need to cut the AI's gold bonus down, because it's ridiculously high. When the AI can field such a large military, pay all the building maintenance, sign an RA with every civ and still have 10's of thousands, there's a problem.

Yes, we could make things cost more for the AI. You can adjust that in the xml as far as I know. In my game some of the civs were really rich anywhere from 3000-5000 gold. Plenty of cash to play with. In the meantime, playing as Russia I had a terrible time making ends meet.

Airey · Jan 25, 2011

Monthar said:
Actually I think they need to cut the AI's gold bonus down, because it's ridiculously high. When the AI can field such a large military, pay all the building maintenance, sign an RA with every civ and still have 10's of thousands, there's a problem.

Play at lower level, the AI there don't have that much bonus.
It is more fun trying to figure out how to out smart the AI, no?

Research Agreement Blocking

Deity

Deity

Deity

Doomsday Machine

King

King

Immortal

Emperor

Prince

knows

It belongs in a museum.

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Administrator

Warlord

Chieftain

Doomsday Machine

Emperor

Deity

Emperor

Prince

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