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#1 |
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Warlord
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: is everything
Posts: 108
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AI Equalizer
Available on Mod Browser.
Edit: V.2 now available. The intention of this mod is to simply expose the AI all bare naked in hopes that it will help the community identify weaknesses and help improve the game. This is also for those who enjoy observing AI behaviour and aren't concerned with having a supreme challenge in the game. In other words, for learning and for fun. Enjoy! Edit: Wanted to further clarify what this mod does and why. First, as stated in the details below, there's an issue with the normal game where the AI receives bonuses intended for the player at chieftan(2) level. This mod removes those bonuses form both the player and the AI. It goes further to remove happiness bonuses on King(5) and higher levels that the AI also receives, as well as bonus starting units and techs. It's not clear whether the AI is supposed to have those player bonuses or if it's a bug, but it goes against my own philosophy in 2 ways: First, in this type of game, I feel that the AI should play by the same rules and have the same incentives and limitations as the player. That's not to say the AI shouldn't have bonuses, but it should not be able to ignore an entire aspect of gameplay (happiness). Secondly, I feel that the player should be rewarded for learning the rules. For one thing, increasing difficulty level shouldn't mean that the player needs to learn a whole new set of rules all of a sudden ("Why do I suddenly have less happiness?"). And secondly, if the player learns a mechanic it should not be negated simply because the opponent is the AI (such as pillaging luxuries to cripple happiness). And finally, I'm working on a gameplay mod that builds off these changes to the Handicaps. Stay tuned for that. Details: Spoiler:
Last edited by Buckets; Jan 20, 2011 at 12:06 PM. |
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#2 |
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Immortal
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 2,320
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sounds good, now if we can just make the AI more intelligent, we'd be set.
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"Know thy self, know thy enemy. A thousand battles, a thousand victories. " - Sun Tzu Shiggs Earth - A ciV map and mod CivEarth.com - a fanatics site for multi-player Earth Scenario's for cIV & ciV |
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#3 |
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Chieftain
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Beaumont, TX
Posts: 20
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EDIT: Nevermind. Appears to be something else.
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I learn Japanese on my Android phone while waiting on turns to process - What do you do? Last edited by aelfwyne; Jan 24, 2011 at 03:41 PM. |
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#4 |
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Prince
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 530
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Great mod, I've played a couple small games with it and Thal's Balance Mod and found it effective.
It would be nice to know exactly what % bonus the AI is receiving on each level however. What is the difference between emperor and immortal? Also, I'm not entirely opposed to the AI receiving a tiny happiness bonus on, say, emperor and above...just in case the growth bonus is hurting their expansion. Agreed though that the vanilla happiness bonus is way ridiculous. |
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#5 |
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Warlord
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: is everything
Posts: 108
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Glad to hear it's meshing with Thal's mods. I find that although I need to up the difficulty, once I do the game is much more enjoyable. It's nice to know when the AI pulls ahead it's because it did something right (or I did something wrong), not because it had a head start.
I'm wary of giving AI back any % happiness bonus because things get extremely wonky as population and cities get more numerous. You could actually gain happiness by increasing your population and cities (like in old vanilla ICS.) I'd rather keep Happiness the limiter on expansion it's supposed to be. Also, I find at higher levels the AI reacts to it's unhappiness pretty well - I've rarely seen it hit -10. Anyway, to answer your question, here are the bonuses and penalties you can expect from the AI: Code:
S(1) C(2) W(3) P(4) K(5) E(6) I(7) D(8) --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- Growth% 160 130 110 100 90 85 75 60 Train% 175 130 110 100 85 80 65 50 Worldtrain% 160 130 110 100 90 80 70 60 Construct% 160 130 110 100 85 80 65 50 WorldConstruct% 160 130 110 100 90 80 70 60 Create% 160 130 110 100 85 80 65 50 WorldCreate% 160 130 110 100 90 80 70 60 BuildingCost% 100 100 100 100 85 80 65 50 UnitCost% 100 100 100 100 85 80 65 50 UnitUpgrade% 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 DeclareWar 0 75 85 100 100 100 100 100 WorkRate 0 0 0 0 20 50 75 100 AdvStart% 100 100 100 100 120 135 150 170 UnitSupp% 0 0 10 20 30 30 40 50 Growth%: Cost of growing cities. Train%: building units. Worldtrain%: great people (probably). Construct%: City Buildings. WorldConstruct%: Wonders. Create%: Projects. WorldCreate%: World projects. BuildingCost%: Building maintenance. UnitCost%: Unit Maintenance. UnitUpgrade%: Upgrades. DeclareWar: % of normal chance to declare war. WorkRate: Bonus percentage for workers jobs. AdvStart%: Tries to give better start locations at higher levels. UnitSupp%: Unit supply (extremely unimportant). |
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#6 |
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Prince
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 530
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Excellent, much appreciated!
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#7 |
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King of Ungulates
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,161
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The AI by default plays on chieftain level, did you address this in some way?
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#8 | |
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Warlord
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: is everything
Posts: 108
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Quote:
So, as you obviously know, by default the AI plays on Chieftan, getting 12 base happiness, 1 extra per luxury, 40% discount on all unhappiness, 50% raod maintenance, 33% off units, buildings, and policies, and 5% off science. What i've done in this mod is rather than change the level the ai plays (seems to be not possible), I've changed the bonuses the human player gets. The Player gets no bonuses = the AI gets no bonuses. So base happiness is 9 on all levels, no bonus production, science, etc. On lower difficulties the AI gets penalties to production and higher gets bonuses. The player gets the same mechanics at every level, which I think is a good thing anyway. I'm afraid that sounds confusing. I hope it makes sense.
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#9 |
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Moderator
![]() Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: France
Posts: 3,653
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#10 | |
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King of Ungulates
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,161
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Quote:
Personally, I prefer player bonuses and penalties over AI bonuses. There are four simple reasons for this: 1) Players are a lot better at coping with different rulesets than the AI will ever be, so changing player instead of AI difficulty makes a lot of sense. 2) You only have to create an AI for one set of AI rules. 3) Players actually feel the difficulty difference rather than just indirectly seeing it. This makes the balancing process much easier and more spot-on. 4) It means difficulty settings (handicaps) have more sense in MP. |
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#11 | ||
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Warlord
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: is everything
Posts: 108
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Quote:
Quote:
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#12 |
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King of Ungulates
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,161
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Yeah it's pretty annoying there's no "re-resolve post defines" option.
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#13 |
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2nd Legionary Cohort
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Earth
Posts: 253
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have the AI bonuses you added in King and above always been there? (the boost to growth, build, mait, etc) or did you add them in with your mod?
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“May you love like you've never been hurt, dance like no one is watching, sing as if no one were listening, screw like it's being filmed, and drink like a true Irishman” |
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#14 |
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Drill IV Defender
![]() Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 9,142
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Thanks to He-Who-Hunts for making me aware of this mod from the thread in gen discussions.
I'll be following this mod with much interest. By the way I pretty much completely agree with your design goals/philosophy.
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Tip: Forcing Steam's Offline Mode Civ4 Mods: Advanced Combat Odds, PIG Mod(discontinued), HEX Mod(discontinued) Suggestion: Try karadoc's K-Mod: Far Beyond the Sword Read if bored: Zoom-To-Cursor, Good advice from Kaell for DX11 users, Nvidia beats AMD in Civ V |
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#15 |
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Deity
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Venice, California
Posts: 5,560
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I just played my first game with this mod, along with the BC supermod, WWGD and Free Research. The potential behind it - that you even out the happiness buffs (and a few others) then balance from there - appeals to me. The mod worked seamlessly with all the others, and the results mirror the earlier posts.
On Immortal, the AI handles the happiness hit without a hitch, mostly keeping its levels between -5 and +15. Naturally its pop was lower - in a game without a runaway civ, the highest city total was 14, highest pop 16.7M at 1800. Where the difference shows is in gold. The AI has a lot less, so RA's are much less frequent with FR, and - in a game where successful early wars left me with a larger early pop - the Inca's cost savings let me control all of the surviving Maritime and Cultural CS. I was challenged only once, doubled down, and moved on. Because it was only one game, I can't be sure if my gold-driven tech lead was earned, or a result of Immortal being easier. I would recommend trying a game with the AI Equalizer. It helped create the terrific sense of rational process that this game had. And I would encourage Buckets to think about elaborating on what he's started here, perhaps in league with one of the other modders, to see if this can serve as one of the main platforms to a game where the AI behaves much more similarly to the human. |
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#16 |
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2nd Legionary Cohort
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Earth
Posts: 253
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^^ Agreed
I play with mods: -all builds are on quick speed (I play a standard speed) -All science is increased (0,5,10,15,20,25%) respective to each age -No research agreements (they're cheesy!) I also put on -no goody huts -raging barbs -7 Civs ( with 14 CS's) on a standard map The result makes the game seem much more real IMO. due to no goody huts and raging barbs the beginning feels alot more isolated, and you're forced to spend time and production simply surviving, not pouring out some high level strat and scouting out as many huts as possible. But you dont worry about the AI running off with the game because they're in the same predicament as you! adding in the one less civ on top of this on a standard map helps this too, the map doesnt get eaten up by 0 AD. The slow science and high building also makes wars feel much more period based, you get to have epic classical and medieval battles without worrying that Rifles might show up. The AI equalizer again ensures that, on diety, the AI wont run away with the game while you're immersed in a war. However the huge increase to production means you'll always be facing a massive, easily replenished army. Seriously, in my last game I took the heart of India's empire, it had maybe four 3 tier cities left when after our peace treaty expired it attacked me with 4 muskets and 1 crossbow! Very cool I thought, usually on lower levels where I find the AI more manageable you never get this kind of effort! Has anyone tried this with the tech diffusion mod? I think it would make it even greater!
__________________
“May you love like you've never been hurt, dance like no one is watching, sing as if no one were listening, screw like it's being filmed, and drink like a true Irishman” |
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#17 |
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Deity
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Venice, California
Posts: 5,560
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I thought I had TD checked off, but noticed I didn't get any free techs early in the game, when beelining usually means I do. But I can say that the two civs I reduced to a couple of cities apiece by around 1 AD stayed pretty even to the other AI in tech, never being more than an era behind.
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#18 | |
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2nd Legionary Cohort
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Earth
Posts: 253
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Quote:
So it didn't interfere with the mod? hopefully it wont screw around with the extended research mod I have as well. Oh well only one way to find out!
__________________
“May you love like you've never been hurt, dance like no one is watching, sing as if no one were listening, screw like it's being filmed, and drink like a true Irishman” |
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#19 | |
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Warlord
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: is everything
Posts: 108
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Quote:
Glad to hear the feedback! Sorry it took me a while to get back. It's been busy times. |
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#20 |
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Russian Monk
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 371
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