Oxford-less Space Colony

There has been some interest in me doing a game with the objective of getting to space as quickly as possible. My own interest is experimenting with getting to space as fast as possible without using Oxford. Recently someone mentioned Sumeria. I like the idea. The game would have to be played along semi-HoF lines and Sumeria is least likely to be used of HoF purposes. The notion of using Sumeria without Oxford is utterly preposterous. Sounds like a challenge! To do a thread for such a game requires some input as Mapfinder will have to generate the starting save.

Inital thoughts: Buffy mod should be used or any mod that locks assets. (No world builder.) Some choice in settings should be allowed. I'm open to ideas. However I would insist on some basics: no huts, no random events, normal speed, standard map size. No barbs is desirable but not necessary. Offer suggestions.

I'm leaning toward making the attempt on either an inland sea or great plains map. Noble level with a target date of 1550 AD may be ambitious enough. The target date will be the most important part of the challenge.

Just for kicks: no markets, banks or universities can be built.

So is there any interest in following this kind of game?

Very much interested indeed.

Would you consider LPs for this one?

What's the point of this game? I'm not sure I see the value in trying for an HOF result and then handicapping yourself arbitrarily. The nature of HOF is such that you want to maximize all advantages, no?

Are you intending to go Corp or State Prop? Banks are pretty essential with Corps...

Why Inland Sea or Great Plains? Just haven't played them much?

Are you loading the map with extra AIs? No City Razing on/off?

Vultures can be devastating, though, and they'll last a long time on Noble.

What's the point of this game? I'm not sure I see the value in trying for an HOF result and then handicapping yourself arbitrarily. The nature of HOF is such that you want to maximize all advantages, no?

Are you intending to go Corp or State Prop? Banks are pretty essential with Corps...

Why Inland Sea or Great Plains? Just haven't played them much?

Are you loading the map with extra AIs? No City Razing on/off?

Vultures can be devastating, though, and they'll last a long time on Noble.

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Good points. I feel the game should not be submittable for HoF consideration. Yet playing for the fastest possible rather implies an HoF approach. My dilemma is that I want to know what is possible without Oxford. Noble level is in the middle of the spectrum. Seems like a good point to test.

Inland Sea or Great Plains maps offer plenty of rivers which are probably needed for a fast space game. Inland Sea is a good map all around but may require too much mapfinder. Great Plains is more mapfinder friendly but may not contain any aluminum and initial happiness may be trickier.

Definitely state property. I'd like to try a civ with an early UU with a game that aims for grabbing land as quickly as possible. Darius is "old hat" but Gilgameshes zigs might be interesting. With no unis to worry about and fewer zigs needed for the FP. Hmmm. The early UU is nice. I would rather have a two-mover, the UU may facilitate preparation, but I may decide on chariots and/or mace. Starting techs are good. Anytime a person starts with ag ... really nice.

Extra AIs: open to any number; No city razing: probably desirable.

I will certainly be watching this, as I am particularly interested in fast-teching ideas. I 'd rather see a more "normal" attempt first (without any of the restrictions that you are imposing on yourself), but whatever challenges you I guess. As Space Race is not getting much attention in general, I hope for a continuation after this game.

Use Egypt. On Noble, WC are probably better than Immortals, and you start with Agri/Wheel.

I will certainly be watching this, as I am particularly interested in fast-teching ideas. I 'd rather see a more "normal" attempt first (without any of the restrictions that you are imposing on yourself), but whatever challenges you I guess. As Space Race is not getting much attention in general, I hope for a continuation after this game.

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Actually, the no markets and no banks is rather standard for me with state property. No unis is a big step but not being financial may be the biggest slowdown.

if you take hatty I would certainly shadow... you should state the rules for shadows though...

I would for sure shadow this game. Probably won't post my time due to the high chance of it just being awful compared to yours.

babybluepants said:

Use Egypt. On Noble, WC are probably better than Immortals, and you start with Agri/Wheel.

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WC are virtually always better than immortals. The only possible argument for using Persia instead of Egypt is traits. I guess the Persian UB is slightly better too.

iggymnrr said:

Actually, the no markets and no banks is rather standard for me with state property. No unis is a big step but not being financial may be the biggest slowdown.

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I usually build the Wall Street (in a shrine city, if I have one) and it really speeds me up research-wise, but you can't do that without banks. On the other hand, I accept that it's a pain building all those banks needed for WS.

Yeah, probably Darius, HC, WvO or Liz would have been the optimal choices, so this will be interesting.

I am also interested to see what wonders you are going to invest in.

Thanks for the ideas.

Yeah, probably Darius, HC, WvO or Liz would have been the optimal choices, so this will be interesting.

I am also interested to see what wonders you are going to invest in.

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Wonders: very likely Oracle->CS. The leader chosen may direct wonders somewhat. For instance, Gilgamesh->FP. The National Park may or may not be in play. Depends.

Tentative settings: No huts, events, barbs or city razing. Number of AIs: standard with +2 at most. Nappy needs to be in. No Monty or Shaka. Probably both Issy and Gandhi to cater to OR. Rest won't matter much. There won't be a lot of tech trading.

Map: Great Plains, target over/under date 1600 A.D. with a personal goal ~1550 A.D.

Leader: Hatty. Unless there is a sudden burst of requests for Gilgamesh or someone else like Gandhi.

Good! Hatty is one of my favorite leaders. The WC is one of the best UUs, but sadly they have a awful UB. Almost as bad as Zaras. :s How come Nappy is a must?

I don't understand not using oxford unless you're going to do it with less cities than oxford requires. Like a large map with only 5 cities (I think oxford requires 6 on a large map).

civvver said:

I don't understand not using oxford unless you're going to do it with less cities than oxford requires. Like a large map with only 5 cities (I think oxford requires 6 on a large map).

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I am playing a large map right now, so I checked and it requires 7.

Otherwise you're basically playing a game saying I'm not going to take advantage of this pretty much standard game feature. It just doesn't seem fun. Fun somewhat handicapped games usually try to leverage a particular thing that is difficult to do, or handicap in a more specialized way like limiting the number of cities. But to each his own.

Good! Hatty is one of my favorite leaders. The WC is one of the best UUs, but sadly they have a awful UB. Almost as bad as Zaras. :s How come Nappy is a must?

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Hatty also simplifies the semi-HoF setup. Ground rule #1 AH must be teched first! I can gaurantee all players to have a good start. Nappy is funny. Joao may be fun too with no city razing. All civs in the game will be known at the start due to setup.

Otherwise you're basically playing a game saying I'm not going to take advantage of this pretty much standard game feature. It just doesn't seem fun. Fun somewhat handicapped games usually try to leverage a particular thing that is difficult to do, or handicap in a more specialized way like limiting the number of cities. But to each his own.

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Anybody shadowing can do as they please.

Buffy mod will be used. Not sure if there will be any problems with the starting save. It seems like this has happened before. I will do some testing then run mapfinder to get the save. Maybe a Thursday/Friday post to a new thread. Game can be played over the weekend.

A larger map with fewer AIs and no barbs might be desirable for land-grabbing purposes, but you might want to just do the standard size/number of civs to get a more normal, non-cheese time. Up to you. I'd assume you would use the standard # of AIs since you're on Noble and not Settler, but may as well throw that out there.

Tyrael said:

A larger map with fewer AIs and no barbs might be desirable for land-grabbing purposes, but you might want to just do the standard size/number of civs to get a more normal, non-cheese time. Up to you. I'd assume you would use the standard # of AIs since you're on Noble and not Settler, but may as well throw that out there.

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The point of extra AI is cheaper cities. I don't think anyone here is planning on not just warring for cities with a UU as good as the WC.

If it's only on noble level, Oxford doesn't seem too important because you can settle/conquer a massive empire so that no one city is very important. Get State Property ASAP and just expand continuously.