Deity please! #2

GKey

Emperor
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
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We got few nice games on previous map.

Some are over, some keep going till now. Best of luck!

Regardless giving up in the end I had lots of fun there. And it was highly educational, at least for me.

Thanks to all players who found map interesting and gave it a try. Especially to AbsoluteZero, who found time to put his game on youtube.

Trying your best and then watching top player deal with the same map is most entertaining way to learn IMO.

I immediately rolled new starts, trying to get some interesting deity map.

And here it is:

Standard settings, fractal, no huts, no events, normal speed.

Opening.jpg


Start location:

Start%20Location.jpg


I find this map very interesting. Hope you will like it too.

;)
 

Attachments

My setup ;)

Spoiler :
I'll try the Oracle, but not without Masonry first and at cost of expanding/axes safety.
If i want the gold/cow/rice spot i'll be better sending an Axe/Settler over first.
No switch to slavery, didn't see the need to whip away the good tiles with so many forests around.
Techs Agri/BW/wheel and then the Oracle line.
The capitol move was inspired by the warrior spotting riverside gems, and the Clams not being lost even if i cannot build a lighthouse later :)
 
Played on a bit

Spoiler :
The Oracle and main city spots i wanted are in :)
Can take either Monarchy or Iron working to get more gems online, but Monarchy looks much better for trades and i can do a smooth switch to HR + Slavery.
Antium builds workboats for scouting and the Clams, and iam off to work now /sigh
 
Rage.

Spoiler :
I have settled for the gems but went SE thinking it would keep fresh water and a chance at a workable strategic. Then I saw the river stopped 1 short of the coast - WTH is that???? :crazyeye: So, a turn and fresh water for gems and more hills, still not a bad swap IMO. No horse though :(

But I'm'a quittin at turn 23 and restart because of this:

Civ4ScreenShot0047.JPG

Yup the worker was too dumb to look up from digging when the barb appeared. We don't have the great wall (yet) you doofus :rolleyes:
 
Interesting start, strong leader. Think I'll give this a go. 1 South is probably where I'll settle, plenty of nice green land even if I'm losing bananas (should be good for a second city further north). East is probably either copper or iron so might take a gamble and tech BW first. Might need to find fish to justify this but the extra hammer from plains hills settle makes a WB-Worker move more feasible to me. Is there enough time to get Ag before the worker is done if I go this route and don't get copper (there appears to be an unforested hill SSE so there is theoretically 8 turns I can use post worker without it being a total waste before Ag and I can always chop)? Never tried this kind of idea before but seems fun to me.

Edit: Probably go the standard worker first actually, it is riverside corn after all. Even fish wouldn't really justify the WB first now I consider it. I should be growing while building the WB, no idea what I was previously thinking really. Still 1S is probably my founding location.
 
Just note that 1S is no fresh water. Personally I prefer SIP here.
 
100 turns:

Spoiler :
First 50.

Spoiler :
OK same start as the rage quit above, but farming the corn one ... turn ... at ... a ... time! Still no BFC horse so hunting, archery, then wheel, BW, and copper (eventually).

In hindsight this is one of those cases where the initial warrior move suggests a good settler move, but then the surrouding topology eventually shows SIP would have been better. Here it would have made for this fantastic city 2 site instead of the mediocre one I took. On the plus side the barbs have founded two very nice cities nearby :goodjob:

Civ4ScreenShot0048.JPG

Second 50.

Spoiler :
Monty got the best of the barb cities and nearly got both. Now there is this unappetizing-looking desert city as the only possible 6th site. Iron, gold and incense is OK though even if only one can be worked at a time (zero food).

Civ4ScreenShot0051.JPG

If Monty is hands full with Zara or vice versa I plan to pile in when it starts and take the double gems city. It is somewhat isolated from the rest of Monty's territory.

Finished the Great Library at T100, and currently passing round the other marble wonders for multi fail gold. It'd be nice to get some praetorian action if I can hook the iron up before Monty (probable target) has longbows. Tech situation below. Going for MC in the hopes of some trade.

Civ4ScreenShot0052.JPG
 
Up to Turn 74 (1040 BC)

Spoiler :
Our Warrior started off going NE and discovered Sugar. Had he gone SE, I probably would have settled in a different location, in order to get the Gem Resource, but I didn't see the Gem Resource, so what can you do?

I figured that I could get a good boost by settling on the Banana, so that's where I sent the Settler. Besides, on Deity, it's important to grab land, so I figured that the Coastal area around our starting location would be "relatively secure," as long as I settled my capital somewhat near our starting location. I also resolved to settle my second City away from the Coast.
a5e2978853.jpg



Then, of course, I got greedy, wanting yet another Food Resource (Riverside Rice), so I moved the Settler again (this time without losing any additional turns, which helped to justify the decision).
1d836d2223.jpg



I had half-hearted ideas about settling near Stone for an early Wonder, so I put my second City near a Stone Resource. However, Stonehenge and The Great Wall went so quickly that I just let that idea slip away.


In fact, it is a tough call--we get a boost on Wonder production but we also get a boost on Settler production. In the end, boosted Settlers won out, since I could 100% guarantee to complete those build items, while completing Wonders wasn't guaranteed... failing to build a Wonder would leave me with failure Gold and less City locations.


My Warrior couldn't resist a Worker steal and I declared war on Monte before anyone that I'd met was Pleased with him, avoiding additional negative Diplo modifiers beyond the hatred that I would get from Monte. I mean, he's going to come after me at some point, so I might as well cut him down to size while I still can.

It turned out that Monte became hated by many AIs, even with him sharing a common Religion with Zara, and he has yet to get Open Borders with anyone... therefore, he's kind of trapped in a little corner, with only 1 Archer still alive on "my side" of the other AIs' Cultural borders. I am not rushing to take out his Archer, since it's just patiently sitting in the Jungle with its maximum Fortification bonus, while my strongest unit is still just an Axeman.


Anyway, freed of the idea of building Wonders, I spammed Cities like there was no tomorrow. I have about the same number of Cities as most of the leading AIs.


Of course, I am light-years behind in techs: forget the whole "trade Aesthetics for Iron Working/Math/Alphabet" deal, since it appears that all of the AIs that know Alphabet also know Aesthetics, in addition to Iron Working, Math, Metal Casting, and even most of them know Code of Laws!

Fortunately, no one besides Monte wants to go to war with me, so I have buckled-down Cottage-style and have started to spam them.

With Writing FINALLY coming in, I'll be able to build a few Libraries, get a Great Scientist (or a few) and stand a small chance of catching-up tech-wise.


If an when I learn Iron Working, I will hopefully have expanded far and wide enough to have secured Iron. If so, then I'll give Monte a rough time, perhaps snagging my first World Wonder (he built The Temple of Artemis).


Here is the status of our empire:
5d5fef3fa0.jpg



I rarely build The National Park, but an idea has come to me: if you're going to build it, you might as well save many of those Jungle squares to the NE of our starting area. Sure, Jungles provide unhealthiness, but The National Park removes all unhealthiness... with that many squares being given Forest Preserves, plus the fact that Jungles regrow twice as quickly as Forests, would mean that even if Zara chops a couple of them down, they should regrow after laying-down Forest Preserves.
 
Heya, Dhoom :)

Finally someone I can manage 10 pages conversations with! :D
 
Heh, no long conversation here, just bitter defeat. I'm no deity player but it does "feel" like a winnable map so it'll be good to see how the pros handle it. Only trouble is deciding which Augustus to be - REXer, wonderwhore or warmonger.

Spoiler :
Attempting culture but invaded by Churchill's tanks, mechs and paratroopers in 1808. Obviously not scared of any defensive pact with Gandhi :lol:

Civ4ScreenShot0060.JPG

Reloaded and deployed 8 stored-up Elvises to see how close it was. Looks like we might have just pipped G to culture, hard to say about the space racers.

Civ4ScreenShot0059.JPG
 
Am I only one who chose to SIP?

@Dhoomstriker.
Spoiler :
So unlucky scouting for settling Rome. :(

Honestly SIP was just perfect. Coastal with only 3 coast tiles, 3 food sources, bunch of green tiles, river, hills, what not? Plus that suspicious unforested tile. I hoped it's horses :mischief:, could not dream of copper on grassland. :eek:)
Miss that gem, but it would perfectly go for second city.
At least you got that stone. Industrious+stone = Mids?



@Kid R
Spoiler :
Yep, Churchill is a monster in my game too. Fricking plain hill gold in his cap BFC and he is miles ahead in tech from everyone! Not sure if I can beat him.
 
Reply to GKey
Spoiler :
Am I only one who chose to SIP?

So unlucky scouting for settling Rome. :(

Honestly SIP was just perfect. Coastal with only 3 coast tiles, 3 food sources, bunch of green tiles, river, hills, what not? Plus that suspicious unforested tile. I hoped it's horses :mischief:, could not dream of copper on grassland. :eek:)
Miss that gem, but it would perfectly go for second city.
At least you got that stone. Industrious+stone = Mids?
Well, my chosen settling location has ended up sucking--I have yet to get Iron Working, so the Rice is of no use. On the plus side, I have two additional Gem Resources, but on the negative side, I also need Iron Working to be able to work them!

Further, the unJungled Gem Resource still isn't within my borders.

On the plus side, my whole concept of "settling away from the Coast probably equals settling towards the AIs" seems to have paid off nicely, getting me a lot more land. So, while my capital is pretty poor for the short-run, it still has some nice medium-term potential and I have a ton of additional Cities to help make up the gap.


You bring up using Stone, but I:
1. Still do not have Masonry
2. Will have to fight with Zara's Culture if I really want to use the Stone, since he plopped-down a City and promptly took control of the square. Maybe I'll wait for him to Quarry it for me and then I'll try to Culturally reclaim it. ;)


It feels so weird to be SO far out of the tech race. I guess that's the big difference between playing these games at Immortal and Deity.


Still, I am in a good position City-wise and can hopefully take on the Montezuma juggernaut once Iron Working comes in and I've razed an army. I have "scouted" his lands by walking Axemen next to his borders while "hiding" in either Zara's or Churchill's borders and Monte is amassing quite a stack of units.

I don't even have Hunting yet, so no Spearmen... my Axemen would be vulnerable to Chariots if Monte could only get Open Borders!!!


The Pyramids might not be a bad idea, since I have a ton of Cities and I really could use some Great People soon. Still, I think that I will delay that idea until after Praets--even though Police State would be nice to have for building Praetorians--since missing that Wonder would only give me a pile of Gold. Getting a Praet army, however, would let me take any Wonder of choice from any given AI that doesn't get to Feudalism by the time that I have my army ready.

Even then, Feudalism would just mean that I'd have to bring along some Catapults.

The scarier thought is that with many AI knowing Code of Laws, one of them may soon learn Civil Service, trade it around, and then obsolete our Praetorians by fielding Macemen.
 
Turn 64, looking good :)

Spoiler :
Darius and Churchi both got Alphabet now, and the first trades can be made. The Oracle techs pay off greatly now, i can trade to Darius for Sailing, and will put my money into AH to get it out of Churchi for Priesthood.
Monarchy should be good enough for Iron Working + maybe writing, and iam ready to take off like a Red Bull :D

I only planted one more city close to my Capi as supprt city with a fish, rice and clams most likely my future GP farm, i don't like to do it in Rome with the river grasland + gems.
No need to expand too far with this land, and get into AI trouble. But the barb City has 1. priority now, barracks from a 2 whip for a Granary in Rome, then Axes to take it.
 
Excellent Ravenna site Dhoomstriker, I suffered from not scouting over there, so I had my settler ready before I really knew where to put him. So panicked and took a really poor city just to get something. I always feel so damn rushed on deity with the speed the AIs expand.
 
@Mylene
Spoiler :
Nicely done. :goodjob:
You don't plan to trade for writing instead and for Alpha next turn?
 
@Dhoom
Spoiler :
Granted that was a bad luck. I mean wth, it's just a wrong direction first warrior move.

Maintenance costs are insane on Deity, I wonder how you cope with how many 6-7 cities? Even 4 make me almost broke. Running specs and bulbing Philo looks like easiest way to get out of tech hole.
Good luck with praets! Do you have iron btw?
 
@Gkey, not much interest in Alphabet (everyone has it now besides Monty who most likely won't trade me good stuff yet anyway, and the chance didn't really present itself). Only place i could have built research was Rome, but iam doing a chariot which is also fine for a mobile happy cap unit and the city is whipped down.

Question, take a look at the Iron/Incense spot please, i whipped a Settler when i saw this is the only place with Iron, now i need to decide where to settle :)
Iam tending towards in between Incense/Iron, using the gold i haven't claimed yet. I want to place it next to the Iron to secure it, too important, i think all spots i could pick are bad and doing a Ressource city is fine?

P.S. Churchi is gearing up, but he is pleased. He forced me into converting to Buddhism, which is fine everyone besides Gandhi and Lincoln uses it.
 
@Mylene
Spoiler :
Interesting point regarding Alphabet! I was considering it as a MUST tech, but indeed, it's really not needed if every other AI has it, so you can trade techs.

Regarding your question: at the first glance I would say don't settle city that will work only one tile forever. On the other hand Iron-Fish site is not much better and this one net you 3 resources and pay for itself by working gold. Go for it IMO.
 
Up to Turn 107 (200 BC)

Spoiler :
Initial Settling Location
Granted that was a bad luck. I mean wth, it's just a wrong direction first warrior move.
Bah, no worries. My capital location will be good soon enough... I have picked up Iron Working so I am finally getting the Rice and Gem Resources online... having worked some Cottages and hired some Scientists there, it'll be a nice capital soon enough. It's low on production, but production can come from other Cities. The true power of Bureaucracy (which I hope that I will eventually get to) is the fact that it multiplies against the Academy's bonus (as well as the Library's bonus).

On the contrary, Bureaucracy's Hammer bonus is ADDITIVE with a Forge and Organized Religion, not multiplicative... so, given the choice, I'll take a Commerce-heavy capital... other Cities can pick up the production slack.


Maintenance Costs and REXing
Maintenance costs are insane on Deity, I wonder how you cope with how many 6-7 cities? Even 4 make me almost broke.
Connecting-up Road-based Trade Routes (until Sailing comes in) between Cities. Then, build a Road to an AI's border and hope that they connect-up a Road to it... if they take too long, then go and build Roads inside of their Cultural borders just to complete the link.

You also use the additional Resources to trade for more Resources... so, instead of having a Happiness cap at 4 or 5, you try to trade up for a higher one.

Meanwhile, you do whatever you can to work improved squares (I kind of out-expanded my Workers' ability to improve squares, but where possible, I worked improved squares). If I had too many citizens not working improved squares (more than 1 per City), I would whip away these extra citizens (sometimes even as soon as I had only 1 citizen working an unimproved square, assuming that the City was big enough for a whipping action.

Later, after Libraries, things really started to pick up, as citizens that were working unimproved squares would automagically turn into Scientist Specialists (okay, nothing auto about it--I looked at every City screen on every turn).


Getting to Pottery early enough to lay down Riverside Cottages helped a lot, too. That, and being willing to keep the Science Slider at 0% for 20+ turns at a time, in order to save up sufficient Gold to quickly research one tech... which was often getting near-maximum discounts from all of the AIs having already researched these techs.


Iron and Praetorians
Good luck with praets! Do you have iron btw?
I do have Iron and I recently whipped my first Praetorian, in order to help fend off Monte's assault. You see, Zara and Monte shared a common Religion so Monte eventually managed to get Open Borders.

However, he must have cancelled the deal 10 turns later, since they no longer have an Open Borders agreement. Monte is annoyed with Zara (which is enough for Monte to not want to Open Borders). Essentially, Monte allowed a "trickle" of his units to come across Zara's Culture before alienating himself by Closing Borders again! :crazyeye:


Anyway, as you can see in the screenshot, after whipping a Praetorian, Monte's assault was easily repelled.
9643818d2b.jpg



Further Minor Expansion
I expanded during this period to two more Cities, picking up a Fish for one and a Clam for the other... not amazing sites, but they'll do.

That puts me at #2 for the total number of Cities, all from self-built Cities. Now that's leveraging one's Imperialistic Trait!


Hiring Specialists and Wonders
Running specs and bulbing Philo looks like easiest way to get out of tech hole.
I would tend to agree that hiring Specialists will help a lot, as we REALLY need to get some early Great People going. Unfortunately, at least in my game, they won't be Representation-based Scientists... The Pyramids came and went in my game.

However, I did just complete The Hanging Gardens (as of Turn 107), my first Wonder--I don't even have any National Wonders yet.

Fortunately, it was a great Wonder to get for a large empire!


The good (or bad?) part is that Monte is the one who built The Pyramids... and The Great Lighthouse... and the Hindu Holy Shrine, in addition to The Temple of Artemis.

Being blocked in and limited to a few Cities really does cause some AIs to go into Wonderspam mode.



Techs
My first trade was me trading away Math to Churchill for Meditation and Polytheism.

Gandhi was also nice to earlier gift me Masonry.

As such, I had the chance to build The Hanging Gardens, so that's what I had done, as mentioned above.

I made a mistake earlier and mis-read the tech screen... a bunch of AIs do not have Code of Laws... a bunch of AIs actually had "Code of Laws" in their "Can Research" column... meaning that they had Priesthood.

So, maybe I can still catch up by going for Code of Laws and trading it around. I think that I'll try to finish Currency before going for Code of Laws, though, both for the additional Foreign Trade Routes and for the bonus to research on the Code of Laws tech.

All Religions except for Islam have been founded... I don't "know" who founded Taoism as per the F7 screen, but it must have been Darius, since he is the only one who does not have Code of Laws in the "Can Research" column of the F4 -> TECHS page.

Several AIs do not have Theology listed under the "Can Research" column, though, so the Apostolic Palace is going to be a random element that can still play havoc with my game.


What's Next?
Building up Praetorians! Monte has some nice juicy Wonders and has alienated himself... he does not have Open Borders with anyone so is not getting any Foreign Trade Routes... meaning that I might stand a chance of getting to him before he gets Longbowmen.

Of course, he has switched into Police State, so the going won't be easy... but I hope to be able to "surprise attack" him from out of Zara's or Churchill's borders... then even "hide" again to heal, if necessary.

But first, I'll need to build the troops... my "stack" right now consists of about 6 Axemen + Praetorians that aren't needed to defend my Cities... I'll need to grow this "stack" by quite a large amount before I attack.
 
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