Gotm 121

Edit: Due to an unknown bug I've decided to make a new game. Be sure that you download the new game.
Game of the Month 121: April 2011


Game Settings:
Civilization: English
Map: Special map (250x40); 7 civ's, flat
Difficulty: King
Barbarians: Raging Hordes
Restarts: Off
Victory: By conquest


Starting Techs:
~ Alphabet
~ Bronze Working


The world contains a lot of forest. It's difficult to find an area without trees. Traveling will be difficult and will give an extra challenge. The difficulty level is pretty low, but research will be pretty tough without ocean access.

Games will be due on May 23th, 2011.


Please be sure to follow the submission guidelines when submitting your game (please do not send your files in a .zip file. Attach them directly to your e-mail with your name in the save file). No extra save is needed.


Please sent the savegames only to civ2gotm@gmail.com.

Have fun.

Starting save is here

Thanks Magic for another interesting set up.

Map analysis leads me to believe huts have been removed; please confirm.

Resource seed is either 30 or 46. In either case there is a 4 special site with 2 fish types and 2 whale types to the sw.

Size 1 tactic is obviously in order here.

You're right Ali. I forgot to mention I removed the huts. Game is loaded as scenario, which should mean we can chose from all tech groups.

Another important thing. Three civs are to the west and the other three are to the east. It's info I already know because I made the map and think it should be shared.

Nice. When I saw the screenshot for the first time, I was hoping we'd play as Robin Hood instead of one of the standards, but your choice is just as well.

Magic_gorter said:

You're right Ali. I forgot to mention I removed the huts.

Click to expand...

Ok, so much for my first idea to start with massive hut popping instead of settling for science, gold and an army of none-units. Gotta think of something else now.

Some black-clicking reveals nothing but continent 1, so I don't think there is any ocean at all. Using auto-settler-function to (eventually, they are so stupid) irrigate is allowed, right?

Some black-clicking reveals nothing but continent 1, so I don't think there is any ocean at all. Using auto-settler-function to (eventually, they are so stupid) irrigate is allowed, right?

Click to expand...

I think you can, but I would not do that. Takes too much time. Best is to use the size 1 trick like Ali described.


With that kind of terrain, I'm unsure whether Pyramids or Marco is the best 1st wonder choice... land is bad for food and growth, which may lead to settlers being built in size 1 cities due to lack of food, but tribute might be more helpful than a few extra early cities. Also, heavy shield production is good for quick settler building, which gives a +1 to Pyramids, so I'm leaning towards that. ICS is likely to play a preponderant role with a low happiness problem.

It's a bummer huts are removed. Seafaring and Explorers would have been pretty fun. I'm unsure if they are still worth it even with huts removed.

A conquest victory? Speed will be very difficult because of all that forest. This will be a very interesting challenge. Thanks Magic.

.. in 150 b.c. - whatever i do. Even start the game and do nothing.

mercurios

Game on strike..

Click to expand...

I am OK to 2000BC (using 2.42 Classic) but maybe the AI will get stuck deciding what to do as this scenario throws up so many good problems. Great idea Magic, thanks.

I think, as the old joke goes, that it is possible we are the baddies.

Robin Hood, his outlaws and their physical arrows are out there in the woods ready to spring out on the Sheriff of Nottingham. We should have perhaps been the French.

I'm sorry but i think the AI is only able to built a second city on grassland. I turned
some tiles wood into prairie in the near of the AI's but they don't take this.
They run out of shields and the units walk and walk... and then all stops.... at 150 bc.

mercurios

Snap!

I setup a test game that may be similar to this scenario - size of map, almost all forest, 7 players, and it also hangs (hungapp) at the end of the human player turn 150BC.

I tried the same savefile on a different PC same thing.

I went to an earlier savefile and took different actions and same thing.

Tried a few things quickly to no effect (based on tech support forum here and net searches) but I was not very structured as in a bit of a rush.

Civ2 2.42 (1,764,880 bytes) on XP SP3.
ntvdm.exe 5.1.2600.5512.
Acer AMD Athlon 64 x2 dual.

Like Inkerman I too setup a test game that may be similar to this scenario: 250x30 flat map, resource seed of 30, all forest, Prince level, and 7 players with designated starting places at 4 special sites with 2 silk and 2 pheasant. None of the rivals founded any cities (however, in GOTM121 5+ of the rivals have a city at -4000). My rivals did tip huts (my version had huts).

Like Inkerman's experiment Civ2 hanged at turn -150.

My version of Civ2 is single player on Macintosh.

I just made the step from -150 to -125 without any problems. Maybe because I haven't downgraded from MGE to 2.42 so far...

If none of you can play the game any further than -125, it might be an easy victory for me...

Don't get your hopes up, my money's on Peaster winning by 900BC.

This is very strange. I will try some scenario's myself and see if there is a difference between MGE and the classic version....

I just tried the same scenario with classic and MGE. And Classic stops at 150 but MGE continued and no problems at 1850 AD... So I guess MGE will make it to 2020 AD without trouble.

Don't know what is causing this problem. Is there anybody who have an idea?

We can do two things right now. Everybody who wants to play this game has to play it with the MGE version (those with classic version can upgrade it with the patch). Those who have started the game already (in classic) are allowed to restart the game with a MGE version.

The other option is that I make a new map/game. If we choose this option the new map/game will be made next monday.

I just tried some things a little on my test setup using cheat mode to investigate.

My best guess currently is that Classic hangs as it searches for somewhere to land turn #96 barbarian pirates. This theory will be disproved immediately however if I were to learn there is some water on the actual map. My test map has none.

More detail:

I used cheat mode to move the failing test case's turn number forward by 1, and the problem did not occur.

I redid my test map removing huts by putting one square lakes where they would be. When I got to turn 150BC the problem did not recur, and I noticed barbarian pirates appearing on one of the small lakes.

It is such a good problem I would like to replay, and my log should enable a near enough exact match.

I had not really formed a view on the ability of automated settlers to irrigate without water, but I see in my test case that this has happened (I did not test the human player doing it.) So I do not think things will be very different with some water. It could be put at the ends of the earth I guess.

Magic_gorter said:

We can do two things right now. Everybody who wants to play this game has to play it with the MGE version (those with classic version can upgrade it with the patch). Those who have started the game already (in classic) are allowed to restart the game with a MGE version.

The other option is that I make a new map/game. If we choose this option the new map/game will be made next monday.

Click to expand...

I just searched the forum and according to this thread http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=443616#post443616
there is no such upgrade patch for Mac players.

Inkerman said:

I just tried some things a little on my test setup using cheat mode to investigate.

My best guess currently is that Classic hangs as it searches for somewhere to land turn #96 barbarian pirates.

Click to expand...

If that is indeed the case, changing the barbarian setting to the lowest (huts only) should solve the problem. I just tried it on my own test and it did work. I did get past -150 and I went all the way to 2020. The rivals never built a single city.

However, this brings forth the question that what is special about turn 96? How come the game did not have any problems with previous launches of barbarians?

with no chance of irrigating since you touch the AI that irrigates out of nothing seems very intersting to me.
but even using the update doesn't a weak AI make stronger.
imho just spread out and erase the weak AI isn't the real thing for me.
I want to have headaches.
So i would prefer a new game.

Oh dear, neither Ali_Ardavan nor mercurios are so good on the MGE-required suggestion. I am OK with it, but although I am a newcomer it is evident to me they both contribute an enormous amount to what is a small community: Ali with his extensive knowledge and his frequent contribution (1,261 posts), mercurios with consistent indefatigable efforts towards the blue star.

So I got someone else to look and tell me if the actual map has water - it hasn't. I made two test maps identical except for a lake. I started matching games on each, and after founding a city used cheat to immediately advance the turn counter to 95. The one with the lake got barbarian pirates on it. The one without went into the hang, or on strike as mercurios amusingly put it in the original error report. So I suggest until better information we presume that some versions of Civ2 have a problem when the map has insufficient water. I propose we call this the "Flying Dutchman" bug, after the legendary ship that can never make port (Wikipedia has a nice entry if the legend is not familiar to you.)

As I meant to suggest in my earlier post mentioning the Sheriff of Nottingham my planning was on the lines of a game where our medieval military (science progress difficult because of arrows/money shortage and no huts) has to cope with both similar rivals and outlaws (the high level of barbarian setting.) I wonder if that is what the designer intended?

I did enjoy thinking about that problem. I look forward to learning from what others did, so I will go with the MGE patch if that is what is decided.

Equally, if, because some are not so good with that (they splendidly play on an Apple platform, or they judge the AI is too weak) I am good with a restart with modified conditions, or maybe we can do that later in the year?

Possibly:
- same size map, still mainly forest, no huts and raging hordes
- a lake or two, and maybe the River Trent, to help the AI develop
- King (Richard) level rather than Prince (John)
- may not build MPE (OK to capture)

Magic_gorter said:

We can do two things right now. Everybody who wants to play this game has to play it with the MGE version (those with classic version can upgrade it with the patch). Those who have started the game already (in classic) are allowed to restart the game with a MGE version.
The other option is that I make a new map/game. If we choose this option the new map/game will be made next monday.

Click to expand...

I would prefer option 2. After I had built Marco Polo and changed maps

Anyway, the basic idea of this Sherwood-theme is great, but imho it needs some adjustment like

Btw, have you met Barbs so far? IIrc I never did until -125.