Lonely Hearts Club LXVIII - Willem of the Netherlands

Hrun

Chieftain
Joined
Sep 11, 2010
Messages
77
Location
Wiltshire
Welcome to the 68th edition of the Lonely Hearts Club for BTS. In the Lonely Hearts Club we explore strategies to cope with one of the most dreaded situations in Civ IV ( possibly the main reason for reloads after the military collapse one ): starting in isolation....

Our next leader is Willem of the Dutch, whom we last played in 55 and before that in 2. The Dutch start with Fishing and Agriculture, two very decent starting techs.
Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0001.jpg

A leader with two highly regarded traits, hopefully you can make the most of them on this map.

The UB, the dike:
Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0004.jpg

The dike is a great building in any circumstances where you will have a lot of coastal cities which you will inevitably with an isolated game (unless you're insane, bad at civ, or really self-assured). +1H on all coastal and river tiles, yes please! Combine this with colossus and Maoi for one very useful coastal city.

The UU, the East Indiaman:
Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0003.jpg

Well its no praetorian but could prove very handy for an early victory in an isolated game through colonisation or war.

And the start:
Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0000.jpg

Well at least there's stone, right? The plains are quite abundant and there doesn't look like a lot of food so not the greatest capital, may consider a move if the warrior finds something nice. Its hard to find synergy between starting techs and starting position here unless I'm missing something. So what am I missing? I've played a bit (on my shiny new no longer super slow laptop) so I will post the report later.

I don't think its much of a spoiler to reveal the map is standard/fractal

You can see a hut in the pic, not a hut fan? just choose a no huts save. Not an events fan? Open it as a custom scenarios

Again a small request ( not mandatory ) :

We ask the participants to do, if possible, a write-up with the victory save and a description of your game ( strategies, techs researched, wars,...). All the info should be in spoiler tags ( to not disturb other people's games ). If you want ( we would like to ) post reports at this moments of the game:

Checkpoint 1 - when we have explored the island and are aware of what resources it has. Its not so important when this is, but this is a time to discuss city sites etc. Don't look into a checkpoint 1 spoiler until you have reached this point yourself.

Checkpoint 2 - first contact - when we have met all the other AIs. At this point we can discuss our strategy to get to this point and our plans for dealing with them.

Checkpoint 3 - when we are committed to a victory condition (or at least think we are).

Checkpoint 4 - Victory (or defeat).


Finally, an apology for the minor delay, a thankyou to r_rolo1 and all those that came before him in this series' initial run, to TheMeInTeam for the map creation guides and to stevoh for co-hosting this series. Enjoy!

P.S We don't have any kind of problem with defeats and reruns.
 

Attachments

ouch. i'd move 1E, but without being able to see whats on westside, that kinda sucks. The two grassland to west could potentially have something useful.
 
Checkpoint 1 (Immortal/Normal 1000BC)

Spoiler :

Settled in place and scouted around my capitol while researching AH. I didn't see enough exciting city sites to make me pass up the stone wonders, so I went for masonry, got great wall and pyramids.

Spoiler :
LonelyWillem01.jpg

LonelyWillem02.jpg

LonelyWillem03.jpg


Yeah... not a lot of land here. In hindsight I really didn't need the great wall. But there is plenty of food and room for at least 6 decent cities. Next priority is IW so I can chop the jungle off those nice northern city sites. Then to literature to get NE up in the sugar/fish city, that way I can get some scientist GPP instead of the spy/engineer mix in the capitol. Maybe rush great library if I get an engineer? :)
 
ouch. i'd move 1E, but without being able to see whats on westside, that kinda sucks. The two grassland to west could potentially have something useful.

They probably do. Map generator still needs to give him a 3f tile IIRC. 1E has a chance of losing it and doesn't gain much that's obvious aside from hills.
 
Checkpoint 2 (1230AD)

Spoiler :

Amsterdam did give me a great engineer :D. I rushed the great library in Rotterdam and put NE there. Went for calendar to improve my sugar then started heading for optics and liberalism, hoping to lib astronomy.

Meanwhile AI caravels started arriving. I met Gilgamesh and Hammurabi, who are semi-isolated together, at war and backwards. Gilgamesh is huge, though, with 15 cities. I also met Zara, and saw he already had education and nationalism, but I still won lib in 1200. Map trading reveals an isolated Ragnar, who should be hopelessly backwards.

Zara's continent-mates are Mansa Musa and Joao, with 10 and 12 cities respectively. :sad: At least they could all be running different religions. Zara is Christian. Joao founded Buddhism and nothing else, so he should be running it. Musa founded Confucianism, but he also has Buddhism in all his cities, so he could be running either. Still, those are not the 3 guys that I want to see on a continent together.

Spoiler :
LonelyWillem04.jpg

LonelyWillem05.jpg

LonelyWillem06.jpg

 
Map generator still needs to give him a 3f tile IIRC.
Is that including the flood plain that is visible 2N1W of the settler?

@Wulf38
Spoiler :
Sorry about Gilgamesh, same thing happened in my game although hammy actually managed a few more than in yours. I bet TMIT will complain about that. It's surprising you won lib in 1200 Mansa got it 1040 in my game on emperor :sad:. Have you abandoned the clam west of Amsterdam, is it not worth settling two cities on the north west coast?
 
@Wulf38

Spoiler :
I think it would've been much better to split up more food for more cities, after Astro each single City will have great traderoutes and after the Dike all of them will be pretty strong. You're limited by the Happycap anyway, that's why i'd prefer more but smaller cities here, and even with limited food any of these cities could grow on coast tiles - that's okay as you're FIN.

North: 1. Fish/Clams 2. Fish 3. Sugar
Middle: 1. Cap 2. Clam/Wheat 3. Fish 4. Clam
South: 1. Clam/Sheep, if you feel like it you can get another city with the sheep on a PH.

With those limited resources everywhere it'll be pretty unlikely you'll be able to grow your cities too soon even after Astro - you simply have nothing to trade.
 
any infos on how you can actually win those games? I play a pseudo OCC-style where I mainly beeline music, build all the wonders with my capital and my #2 supports expansion, then beeline astro, then:

a, im behind like hell, beeline divine right, then bio. if I get back into the tech, i play on, if not i retire.
b, i get insta-warmode'd
c, i'm so far ahead that I retire.

the outcome of these maps is too random for my taste. ANd of course I get the revolt event like 50 times in my game. Why do people play with events on?
 
any infos on how you can actually win those games?
R_rolo1 compiled a strategy article for isolated games you can find here

im behind like hell, beeline divine right, then bio.
Why divine right? I always thought it was useless.

the outcome of these maps is too random for my taste. ANd of course I get the revolt event like 50 times in my game. Why do people play with events on?
In what way are the outcomes of these games more random than others? You don't have to play with events on just open the save as a custom scenario and turn em off.
 
In what way are the outcomes of these games more random than others?

You have less opportunity to influence the AI in the early stages which directly increases the likelihood of a runaway AI before you can get into the world diplo situation. When you meet an AI at 1100 AD with 3 vassals (only one through war :() and a resulting 35-40% of world land, the game gets very cheap and dicey. Not much can be done about it; and while this is less common on non-iso it's still possible.
 
@hrun

Divine right is the trade chip that should get me back, biology serves as a plan B for that. Didn't work in my game.

The games are random because you cannot intervene with the fact that joao has 3 neighbours who refuse to build cities and gift him up to 30% land mass from the get go. By the time you meet the AIs the damage is done and it is huge. Same goes for an AI that is isolated: by the time you meet it, it's cannon fodder. That's the main reason i always reroll isolated starts and avoid fractal maps in general. They create too much uncontrolable garbage.
Now the usual thing is that some get those scripts where one AI gets ahead AND everyone loves each other AND every peace vassaler going for culture is already hiding behind a 25 city monster before you can do anything. You quit the game at first contact. Then you open the writeups of other people and they Lib future tech 20 in 500 AD while the whole world is in a gigantic war.

The opening is interesting to play and compareable, without stupid early DOWs, but everything after the first AI contact is a dice roll.
 
Thanks for the advice, I probably should have founded more cities.

Spoiler :
Kinda gave up on this game when Gilgamesh went out of control, and I couldn't come up with the production capacity to match him, plus the Joao/Musa/Zara tech whore alliance kept getting more and more ahead of me. I'd be interested to see how people go about winning this map. Maybe it would be best to pick on backwards Ragnar ASAP, then use his land to produce enough units for the rest. Or just go culture.
 
Monarch/Epic 1180ad
Spoiler :
Well basically short n' sweet
SIP, worker, warriors
Having stone nearby meant GW, Mids. Being financial and alone, I was going to try the GLH/TC combo but missed each by just a couple turns a piece. So rexed like crazy, settling out the island, running Rep. Beelined Optics, spammed out a few caravels to meet Joa, Giggles and Ham on Rye.
Always running :science: specs, bulbed Astro and Education.
Getting Astro 1st started on Observatories, then queued up Universities after the Obs. I'll :whipped: the Obs for overflow into Unis. I have a GE ready for Ox.
Spoiler pics :
Spoiler Techs :
Civ4ScreenShot0000.jpg

Civ4ScreenShot0002.jpg

Spoiler Domestic :
Civ4ScreenShot0001.jpg

Spoiler world :
Civ4ScreenShot0003.jpg

Spoiler cities :
Civ4ScreenShot0005.jpg

Civ4ScreenShot0006.jpg



I have a good tech lead and I'm still not sure what to grab with Lib, nor am I not sure on my VC. Once my Obs/Unis/Ox are online, I'll be teching really good. Any ideas on which way I should go?
 

Attachments

@stimpyhoek
how were you trying to upload, were you using an image hosting site? Of course you don't have to post pics you can just post a report if you want.

Report:
Emp/Normal played to 1780AD
Spoiler :
Seems to be going mediumly so far, unusual normally its bad or good but I have hope despite the fact that Gilgamesh and Joao have quite a few cities and Hammurabi peace vassaled to Gilgamesh.

Pics:

Our island and Gilg/Hammy
Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0005.jpg


Joao, Zara, Mansa and Ragnar
Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0006.jpg


North of island close up
Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0007.jpg


South of island close up
Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0008.jpg


Domestic screen
Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0009.jpg


Techs
Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0010.jpg

Obviously Ragnar is the most backwards but its surprising that Gilgamesh and Joao aren't doing better as Hammy, Mansa and Zara are. Mansa was the reason I lost Liberalism in 1040AD. I'm thinking of going for Computers and The Internet and trying to win space.
 
Back
Top Bottom