Free Tech Gift from AI "Random" Event

Although it may have absolutely no strategic value,
I'm just curious about the mechanics behind the event where the AI gives you a tech for free...and we have the option to accept it or refuse it ( why refusing it except maybe the WFYABTA limit ) .
I think it is not labeled as a true random event, thus it can happen even with "No random events" checked. For some reason, methinks it occurs more often when our civilization is backward, explaining why it happens more likely on higher levels.
Anyways, hope someone has the answer.

P.S. Of course, I did the research before asking, I'm not that lazy .

Short answer, you have to be backwards and they have to like you.

You're right, it's not an Event event, it's just a random AI action, same as the requests that they make of you sometimes.

Tachywaxon said:

why refusing it except maybe the WFYABTA limit )

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- some techs obsolete wonders, buildings, or units
- if you're playing with No Tech Brokering option you can't trade it away unless you researched it yourself
- maybe WFYABTA (not sure)
- maybe counts as a worst enemy trade (not sure)

- maybe WFYABTA (not sure)

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I'm almost sure it will have its impact because the WFYABTA depends of how many techs we receive from the AI in total. Some good techers aren't prone to exchange more than 5 five techs before the appearance of WFYABTA limitation (Pacal II, Huayna Capac), thus it sometimes is better to refuse than grab the tech if one is able to obtain much better via trade. However, if it has permanent diplomatic consequence like "you refused our present", not sure what to do except accepting. A chance it is not the case.

- maybe counts as a worst enemy trade (not sure)

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I thought about that too, but do gifts count? Maybe someone can elaborate about it.
Of course, I would refuse if I lose in consequence 4 diplo points with my best friend.

Nonetheless, that AI behaviour happens more often during Ancient, Classical and Medieval Times because later most of the time, we catch up (except deity...very often). So because of the tech low cost, the "You've traded with our worst enemy" will decay faster.

Another question: How backward do we need to be? In terms of tech number or summed up tech cost in advance related to our backward tech situation?

Thanks Jet for the reply.

VoiceOfUnreason's thread; Mechanics of Technology Trading Limits makes interesting reading.

I 'interpret' that the answers to the questions are;


(Please note that this is parroting other contributors' posts in this forum).

Tachywaxon said:

However, if it has permanent diplomatic consequence like "you refused our present", not sure what to do except accepting. A chance it is not the case.

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There is no such Diplo penalty. Feel free to refuse the gift at no cost to you (other than not getting the gift).

Maybe someone can elaborate about it. Of course, I would refuse if I lose in consequence 4 diplo points with my best friend.

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Uhhh, if anyone gets a -4 "You Traded with our Worst Enemies" penalty, it will be the AI that gave you the gift, not you! All the better if one AI starts to hate another, particularly since it will be the AI that has you as their Worst Enemy that will end up hating your benefactor (i.e. end up hating the AI that gave you the gift).

So because of the tech low cost, the "You've traded with our worst enemy" will decay faster.

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Eh? Where did you get that idea from? Each tech is counted equally as +1 tech for the We Fear You Are Becoming Too Advanced counter, whether you take Hunting or Divine Right in trade (or as a gift). The Flask value of the gift does not matter.

In fact, if you are 2 Flasks away from researching Education and you accept the tech in a trade, it will still count as the full "+1 tech" for the WFYABTA counter.

Another question: How backward do we need to be? In terms of tech number or summed up tech cost in advance related to our backward tech situation?

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I have only received gifts when I have been the most technologically-backward player in the game. I do not believe that "being in the lower half of the Scoreboard" matters--only that everyone else is more knowledgeable than you.

Of course, being more knowledgeable isn't necessarily being smarter... since it can be smart to put yourself in a position to be able to receive freebies!

Dhoomstriker said:

I do not believe that "being in the lower half of the Scoreboard" matters--only that everyone else is more knowledgeable than you.

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Why don't you believe this? I thought that was one of the things that had been determined from the code?

There is no such Diplo penalty. Feel free to refuse the gift at no cost to you (other than not getting the gift).

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Well, I knew there is no diplo consequence with refusal; the underlined if means if the programmers have done that way it would change my decision almost to a no brainer "yes I accept" (except cases where the tech obsoletes an important building or unit).
I know I express myself very badly.

Uhhh, if anyone gets a -4 "You Traded with our Worst Enemies" penalty, it will be the AI that gave you the gift, not you! All the better if one AI starts to hate another, particularly since it will be the AI that has you as their Worst Enemy that will end up hating your benefactor (i.e. end up hating the AI that gave you the gift).

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Now this is settled and that's kind of interesting how this gift can screw my benefactor's diplomacy.

Eh? Where did you get that idea from? Each tech is counted equally as +1 tech for the We Fear You Are Becoming Too Advanced counter, whether you take Hunting or Divine Right in trade (or as a gift). The Flask value of the gift does not matter.

In fact, if you are 2 Flasks away from researching Education and you accept the tech in a trade, it will still count as the full "+1 tech" for the WFYABTA counter.

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I was talking of the "You have traded with our worst enemy" decay speed not WFYABTA one. It was in continuation of Jet's hypothesis that this gift can provoke a diplomatic anger about worst enemy, but you did discredit accepted gift has no effect at all regarding the "You have traded with our worst enemy". If I recall correctly this fact from VoU article, at each turn there is a 5 % chance a civ will forget one tech in the counter.

I have only received gifts when I have been the most technologically-backward player in the game. I do not believe that "being in the lower half of the Scoreboard" matters--only that everyone else is more knowledgeable than you.

Of course, being more knowledgeable isn't necessarily being smarter... since it can be smart to put yourself in a position to be able to receive freebies!

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That's a simple rule and it explains why it happens more often to receive free tech during the beginning of a game.

Thanks Jet, Cam_H and Doomstriker, you almost said everything about it.
I'm sure there is more, but the essential is there.

Irrelevant stuff; just for Cam_H.

It's funny to see you in each of my threads, knowing I created so few...
and I almost never see you somewhere else.
Probably coincidence or I selectively choose threads different from yours.

Yeah this is really irrelevant...

Cam_H said:

Why don't you believe this? I thought that was one of the things that had been determined from the code?

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Well, if that's the case, then I am wrong.

However, some of the reasons why I would tend not to believe it (since you asked) are that:
1. The AI player that is in last place gets "shunned" from tech trading. They don't seem to even be able to buy their way into a tech that they have partially-researched; the other AIs treat that AI like a black sheep and ignore them tech-trading wise. However, when you are the last player in terms of tech-level, then the second-last-place AI will not get shunned. So, there is definitely some code that affects the "last-place" player, meaning that it's not too hard to believe that other code does the same, such as gifting code.

2. There are already bonuses for being in the bottom-half of the Scoreboard, such as being able to ignore WFYABTA limits from other players in the bottom-half of the Scoreboard, that would make receiving a gift somewhat reduced in value. If you can trade with your fellows because you are not in last place but are near the bottom, then you don't really need gifts to stay in the trading game. On the other hand, the player that is in last place really will tend to have a tough time getting back into the trading game, so they really could benefit from getting a gift. So, it simply feels like gifting would be the most useful for the player that is dead last. At least, that's how I would implement gifting, particularly to avoid the case of too many AI-AI gifts (since there are going to be half or almost half of the players in the bottom-half of the Scoreboard in any game--and if they constantly got gifts, they'd shift in and out of the bottom-half, meaning that other AIs would temporarily end the bottom-half and would earn gifts, meaning that you'd have a breakneck tech pace).

3. Whenever I've been not in last-place tech wise, but low in the Scoreboard, I have been unable to receive a gift. Now, I admit that gifting doesn't happen very often, so these experiences do not necessarily make a rule.

4. Whenever I have been low in the Scoreboard but have intentionally delayed research so that I would fall into last place, shortly thereafter is when I would tend to receive a gift; at least I would tend to get such a gift when a "gift-giving" type of AI, such as Zara or Hatty, is in the game. The same is true of Deity-level games when I wasn't intentionally falling into last place but where it just happened despite my best efforts!

Thanks for your considered post Dhoomstriker. I'm just going to have to be more mindful of my spot on the scoreboard in the future too! (I play OCCs a fair bit, so 'likewise' it's not uncommon to be at the foot of the scoreboard due to poor population and land area, and simultaneously rely on getting one or more AI tribes to 'Friendly').

Tachywaxon - lately I tend to spend more of my Civ4 time on Succession Games (incl. Succession Game of the Month) but nonetheless browse this forum looking for ideas or a better understanding of game mechanics. Usually other posters are keen to help out, so rarely is a question 'hanging' for much time in the Strategies and Tips forum before some kind soul provides the answer, however there have been questions that you've put that were 'hanging'. I'm not stalking your threads ... really ...