Lonely Hearts Club LXIX - Montezuma of the Aztecs

Hrun

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Willem's latest LHC has wound down now so... Welcome to the 69th edition of the Lonely Hearts Club for BtS. In the Lonely Hearts Club we explore strategies to cope with one of the most dreaded situations in Civ IV ( possibly the main reason for reloads after the military collapse one ): starting in isolation....


Our next leader is Montezuma of the Aztecs, whom we last played in 61 and before that in 8. The Aztecs start with Mysticism and Hunting, normally I would think they would be considered below par and really they probably still are in isolation. The scout from hunting is less useful with (what is usually) less land to explore but on the plus side mysticism means easier/faster religions which can be common grabs in isolated games for the happiness, if you don't want to go for a religion or 3 then these are not the best starting techs for sure.
Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0013.jpg


Spiritual and Aggressive are not exactly made for isolation but their properties can be useful in pretty much any game, for the late game anyway. In the early game you would be looking at whipping and war (especially with Monty, he has a name to uphold) which is not an option in isolated games.

The UB, the sacrificial altar:
Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0015.jpg

I must confess to having barely used this, we'll see how this goes. It looks like a very powerful UB, cheap courthouse with special whipping powers nice.

The UU, the Jaguar:
Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0016.jpg

As UUs go its not great. The negative side to this UU is diminished by the fact that all early military UUs are ruined by isolation. The jaguar should make a very effective spawnbuster (if you go for IW) with the off the bat Woodsman 1.

The start (from the Noble, huts save):
Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0012.jpg

Pigs, hills, grassland, river, freshwater lake, not too bad. I don't see much reason to not SIP as there is probably more resources in the fog but maybe I'm wrong.

Map is Standard/Fractal, I toyed with trying Archipelago but decided not, any opinions? I don't know whether other maps have been used in LHCs? I saw one of Mad Scientist's previous RPCs has been revived in which he had an isolated start on an archipelago map with high sea levels and, consequently, little land. Would you like to try other things such as this?

Not a hut fan? just choose a no huts save. Not an events fan? Open it as a custom scenario.

Again a small request ( not mandatory ) :

We ask the participants to do, if possible, a write-up with the victory save and a description of your game ( strategies, techs researched, wars,...). All the info should be in spoiler tags ( to not disturb other people's games ). If you want ( we would like to ) post reports at this moments of the game:

Checkpoint 1 - when we have explored the island and are aware of what resources it has. Its not so important when this is, but this is a time to discuss city sites etc. Don't look into a checkpoint 1 spoiler until you have reached this point yourself.

Checkpoint 2 - first contact - when we have met all the other AIs. At this point we can discuss our strategy to get to this point and our plans for dealing with them.

Checkpoint 3 - when we are committed to a victory condition (or at least think we are).

Checkpoint 4 - Victory (or defeat).


Finally, an apology for the minor delay (only 1 day this time :D), a thankyou to r_rolo1 and all those that came before him in this series' initial run, to TheMeInTeam for the map creation guides and to stevoh for co-hosting this series. Enjoy!

P.S We don't have any kind of problem with defeats and reruns.
 

Attachments

I see enough reason not to SIP if the two rives to the south provide tons of riverside grassland. 2S doesn't seem to give up anything worthwile. There's probably copper/iron/horsies there but that's not very important when you're isolated.
 
I'd move the settler 1S and either settle there (can't be worse then SIP in place & you get riverside city & more forests), or explore more before settling.
 
Too bad that i run Caste System for most of my isolation games, the excellent UB won't get too much use 8[
 
I this thing alive? This sounds interesting. I've given it a go up to Astro. All is ok, I guess. Upon meeting the other civs, I'm in the middle of the pack. Monarch, no huts. My first time with events.
 
It's still a discount courthouse, and good enough to consider applying slavery a little longer.
Indeed, and with Monte being Spiritual, you have even more incentive to at least occasionally slip out of your beloved Caste System into Slavery.
 
No! Did you guys know that removing diplomatic victories means that you can't build the AP? I had this grand vision of covering my land with tiny cities, run almost exclusively off of the might of "plus something buildings" (temples and monasteries empowered with AP, Sankore, and Spiral Minaret + those amazing Sac Altars), but decided that winning through the AP would be too cheap. So, I oracle Theology, but couldn't build my beloved Wonder of Wonders! :mad:

Spoiler :
Compounding my mistake, I got Judaism so that I could unlock OR. Actually, I'm not 100% convinced that this was a mistake, since I whipped like crazy (I was limited more by food than happies, even though I farmed everywhere) to get my infra up. This turned out to hurt me, since everybody except for one is buddhist now.

Another big mistake was getting just about every tech I could before getting Optics. "Let them find me, I reasoned. Trade routes are nice, but I can manage without.". Isn't that what r_rolo's guide suggested?

Fortunately, I kicked it down a notch this game--playing on Noble--and I was able to get Astronomy via Liberalism anyway. I plan on taking over the two barbs cities that have somehow survived this long (one's only protected by two warriors! :eek:) and then Wang Kon. Nobody likes him anyway ;P ). After that, I don't know.

Maybe I should make a colony there? In that case, maybe I should just make Korea the vassal. Problem is, he's only got two cities. I don't think he's at war, but this'll make him useless as a vassal if I keep him, right? Maybe even attacking the barb cities would be too big a drain at this point: No resources and I don't need the trade routes.

Maybe I'm better off going for cultural or space. I've got the tech lead, thanks to a GP farm under Representation. I could probably manage to grab one of the cultural corps. I dunno.
 
38 save views and 1.5 reports? C'mon guys share!

Played up to checkpoint one, 1960BC on Emp/Normal/no huts, having teched BW and AH:
Spoiler :
I swear this island was much bigger when I checked it in WB (although that was a while ago now). There aren't that many food resources or hills away from the tundra. Anyway here is my whole island screenshot:
Civ4ScreenShot0017.jpg

There are a lot of flood plains without a food resource or many hills/production sources (unless their are iron resources?) I'm unsure as to how to settle them but I'll probably cottage them anyway coz I'm lazy.
Here's my dotmap featuring 8 cities:
Civ4ScreenShot0018.jpg

Any thoughts on this?
 
38 save views and 1.5 reports? C'mon guys share!

Played up to checkpoint one, 1960BC on Emp/Normal/no huts, having teched BW and AH:
Spoiler :
I swear this island was much bigger when I checked it in WB (although that was a while ago now). There aren't that many food resources or hills away from the tundra. Anyway here is my whole island screenshot...Any thoughts on this?

What does "38 save views" mean? 38 people have tried this?
Anyway, you play a much higher difficulty than me, but I'll try to analyze your dotmap:
Spoiler :
I tried cramming more cities in, and it seems to work pretty well. We're stuck on such a small island, with lots of worthless tiles, so it seemed natural to me that we build the pyramids and work representation. With that goal in mind, I split up the floodplains and your fish/horses city. Sure, those cities won't be much, but with the Sac Altars, they're better than they would normally be. OTOH, I did miss out on buildling the pigs city so far, so maybe that wasn't the best plan. If you don't mind the spoiler, you can look at situation to see what I mean.


Since somebody called me out on not having any screenshots, here's my situation:
Spoiler :

My island:
Spoiler :
monty204.jpg


My three best cities:
Spoiler :

scapital.jpg

sgpfarm.jpg

sproductioncity.jpg


 
Ok, I'll bite. Monarch, no huts.

Checkpoint 1:
Spoiler :

CP1map.jpg



~Checkpoint 2:
Spoiler :

CP2map.jpg

I got me a world Map :cool:
Won Lib. Took Nationalism for Taj. Started on Astro. Once Astro is in, I will go Econ and Corp for the extra trade routes. Yes, Tlatelolco(sp?) is starving but some health resources are on the way via Astro.


I'm moving this weekend so I haven't/won't have much time to play.
 
@ Ecuwins: I hope your move goes ok. I've been through my fair share; they're not much fun.

I wanted to ask: What made you change your dotmap? It looked pretty good the way it was, though I too like more cities (as opposed to six strong ones).
 
Unless I'm tripping, it's the same dotmap.

Ah, I did move the silver city 1W.

Oops, my bad. I have a tiny screen and only saw five city sites + your capital.
 
I'm uploading videos of my game to youtube (link in sig). Noble/Normal, no huts or events. I'm a Monarch-Emperor player when I focus, so the purpose of the game is more as a guide for Noble level players than anything else.
 
Playing Prince, 800AD
Spoiler :

Going for a culture win. Oracled CoL for a religion & the lovely UB. Just won the music race & starting on the all-important Sistine Chapel.

Can't say I think much of our island, quite a bit of tundra/desert around. Still, I have 8 cities of various degrees of usefulness. I am #1 in land but #7 in population.... methinks I have been whipping a lot :lol: Still, Monarchy is about to come in so I can finally get cities past size 7/8 - we are so lacking in happy resources, just fur and silver. Next up in teching is Philo for another religion if possible, then calendar just for MoM, then to Lib, then either democracy or optics.

I built a city to the NW of the capital, the pigs are enough food to work 4 mined hills next to it. That city is pumping out wonders at a fair pace.

I've run my economy fairly awfully. This would really be screwing me if I wasn't playing on Prince. I'd normally go in slightly higher difficulty but since this is my first lonely hearts game I didn't want to make it too hard on myself.
 
@Um the Muse
Spoiler :
I think I will split the floodplains up further, I like how ecuwins has done it so I'll go for that. EDIT: although actually that looks difficult to accommodate the other city, hmmm

Next to the save file in the first post it says how many times the folder has been viewed presumably most of those views have been followed by an attempt.


@ Capellan
Awesome, I'll check that out when I'm further along.
 
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