G-Minor 119

While the general Hall of Fame is an ongoing competition, we like to run time-definite competitions between updates that we call Gauntlets. Standard Hall of Fame rules (*) still apply, but any games meeting the settings will be counted towards the Gauntlet.


Settings:

• Victory Condition: Diplomatic (though all victory conditions must be enabled)
• Difficulty: Warlord
• Starting Era: Ancient
• Map Size: Tiny
• Map Type: Any
• Speed: Normal
• Civ: Any
• Opponents: Any
• Version: 3.19.003
• Date: 25th April to 10th May 2011

Must not play as Inca.

The earliest finish date wins, with score as a tiebreaker.

Just a question Denniz. Look at G-Minor 118 thread.

Regarding the present gauntlet, why 30 days for a tiny map. I thought G-Minor means 15 days (after looking contest duration of many previous ones (not all though)).

Delete the post please, stupid question

since I don't like empty tables, I consider the "No games submitted yet!" like something to get rid of asap.
So I submitted a game.
Very straightforward diplo game, playing de Gaulle.
Missed the oracle (I got greedy, maybe), but used lib for physics and had the UN in 1060 if I remember well. Win in the 12th century. I guess someone managing to oracle something good (education for instance, like I wanted to, or even better) can beat it comfortably.
Someone managing GPP better (running pacifism could have helped, but I wanted the diplo points from the orgrel lovers) can also get a better date.

some strategic thoughts :
- to get something from the AIs, I teched AH>writing>alphabet. backfilled very neatly, including BW, IW, and such.
- I went for currency early, to let the AIs pay for my teching. selling techs is the single best way to pay for your empire, when you don't care about a race.
- the great library is cool, but running scientists is earlier. Paris built a library as its first non unit item.
- With stone, I could have had the pyramids earlier. a dozen turns lost here IMHO (I postponed the mids until the ADs if I remember well.
- a few better hut pops would have helped too. I got 1 settler, gold, and maps. 2 non essentials techs too. Could be a lot better.

Tachywaxon said:

Regarding the present gauntlet, why 30 days for a tiny map. I thought G-Minor means 15 days (after looking contest duration of many previous ones (not all though)).

Click to expand...

You're right. I made some mistakes last night. The gaunlet runs through the next update (May 10th) as usual.

cabert said:

since I don't like empty tables, I consider the "No games submitted yet!" like something to get rid of asap.
So I submitted a game.
Very straightforward diplo game, playing de Gaulle.
Missed the oracle (I got greedy, maybe), but used lib for physics and had the UN in 1060 if I remember well. Win in the 12th century. I guess someone managing to oracle something good (education for instance, like I wanted to, or even better) can beat it comfortably.
Someone managing GPP better (running pacifism could have helped, but I wanted the diplo points from the orgrel lovers) can also get a better date.

some strategic thoughts :
- to get something from the AIs, I teched AH>writing>alphabet. backfilled very neatly, including BW, IW, and such.
- I went for currency early, to let the AIs pay for my teching. selling techs is the single best way to pay for your empire, when you don't care about a race.
- the great library is cool, but running scientists is earlier. Paris built a library as its first non unit item.
- With stone, I could have had the pyramids earlier. a dozen turns lost here IMHO (I postponed the mids until the ADs if I remember well.
- a few better hut pops would have helped too. I got 1 settler, gold, and maps. 2 non essentials techs too. Could be a lot better.

Click to expand...

Just to make a overall point of my situation: When did you got Printing Press or Education? I made a Education slingshot at 1000 BC and obtained the secrets of PP around 300 BC. Now I am going to build the Oxford in order to rocket my tech rate (+44 beakers at first). Hope I'll finish it around 100 AD.
I don't know if Elizabeth on Rainforest is a good choice, but one thing is sure: the tribal huts were favorable to me...3 settlers, 2 techs (including Aesthetics), three scouts (well the two last were a bit useless ) and two high yield gold huts.

I still didn't build the Mids, nonetheless, Lincoln, a sweet techer along Mansa Musa, suddenly teched Monarchy around 800 BC. Therefrom I build loads of warriors to push the happy cap way farther than Representation civic cap.

I wonder if I should go for CS, given the few cottages I worked in my capital surrounded with 4 pigs (one hilly piggy included), grass cow, non-irriguated corn, riverside rice and 5 hills (6 with the hilly piggy) plus iron on plain. What do you think Cabert?

What an idiot I am, if I go for early cottages, Free Speech is way better. Then, I should forget getting something better than Physics from Liberalism as I don't want to delay the power of Free Speech civic.

I submitted a 1320AD finish, which is probably the fastest I've ever completed a diplo victory. But even before reading Cabert's result, I knew there were many ways to improve.

I did CS-sling from Oracle, but didn't even consider going for edu with it. I bulbed that instead. Bulbed half of sci meth and half of physics and 2-bulbs into electricity. Liberalism for Radio. 1-GE for UN and golden age while building. Thought I would have to gift the UN to lowest pop leader (Hatty), but instead caught her religion and adopted it.

Lots of inefficiencies in the early tech tree... detour for Music unecessary... thought the GA could bulb radio and liberalize elec, but liberalized radio since the GA would bulb drama instead. Not decent trading opportunities. Played as Ramses and other opponent was Joao. Kind of relaxed builders game, so I could try it again. Got one settler, two techs (fishing and calendar), some cash, a map, some warriors from huts. Basically, cottages in capitol... probably too slow, should focus more on GPP... really hurt that I did not get Parthenon, actually. Was hoping for 2 GE, only had one... the second would have saved about 6 turns from victory. I played on a low seas lakes map, which was I think a reasonably OK choice.

All in all not too shabby for a first effort at a vc I'm not very skilled with. But I'm sure its not competitive.

I was still running bureaucracy in the end. I had almost no cottages anyway.

I got education the hard way in 175 BC and PP in 125AD (a single scientist bulb).

IMHO, you must have made several detours after that.

to kcd, I did the detour for the artist too, but used him for an early golden age.
I put 2 bulbs into electricity too.

edit: why would you need 2 GE? I used one in and got (with a chop) the UN in the first turn after mass media

Am I the only one who thinks an OCC attempt may be faster for a UN win on warlords? Liberalism should be used on radio - the most expensive tech that you can't get from GS bulbs.

shyuhe said:

Am I the only one who thinks an OCC attempt may be faster for a UN win on warlords? Liberalism should be used on radio - the most expensive tech that you can't get from GS bulbs.

Click to expand...

You're not alone .
I am still thinking about it, considering the best civ, AI, map type, and just how good a start I should be looking for.
OCCs have several good points when heading for a UN victory. Quick Oxford after education and single university. Lower chance of a -1 for close borders with AI. Extra national wonders.
Against this is the sheer commerce that a large empire can bring in, when fully grown and developed - OCC finds it difficult to match that.
All-in-all, I think it is worth a shot.

shyuhe said:

Am I the only one who thinks an OCC attempt may be faster for a UN win on warlords? Liberalism should be used on radio - the most expensive tech that you can't get from GS bulbs.

Click to expand...

no, I think so too.
But I'm never in the mood to play warlords (or vanilla for that matter), so...

Finally finished my first attempt: 1020 AD diplomatic victory. Damn I know how to manage an empire, but completely fail at simple rules like:
if our population is enough to make you win a DV alone, then we are disqualified to it until the population is at the right amount. Because of that, I had to wait 5 other turns to try again.
Anyways, a victory is a victory.......so sweet before 1000 AD.

Now, I have to find my starting save I lost in the multitude of mapfinder saves. I think I have it, but can't confirm it if it is the right one.

shyuhe said:

Am I the only one who thinks an OCC attempt may be faster for a UN win on warlords? Liberalism should be used on radio - the most expensive tech that you can't get from GS bulbs.

Click to expand...

I thought about it...but I don't think you can generate GPP fast enough with OCC to make up for 3-4 additional cities pumping out GS for bulbing. Additional cities are pretty easy to capture, and you may even pop a settler from a hut at this diff. The negative diplo from borders is very easy to overcome if you pick the right AI civs and concentrate on all the +diplo bonuses you can get.

OCC strengths would shine a little more on higher levels, but I think they are overshadowed in these game parameters.

cas

edit: grammar

shyuhe said:

Am I the only one who thinks an OCC attempt may be faster for a UN win on warlords? Liberalism should be used on radio - the most expensive tech that you can't get from GS bulbs.

Click to expand...

cas said:

I thought about it...but I don't think you can generate GPP fast enough with OCC to make up for 3-4 additional cities pumping out GS for bulbing. Additional cities are pretty easy to capture, and you may even pop a settler from a hut at this diff. The negative diplo from borders is very easy to overcome if you pick the right AI civs and strive concentrate on all the +diplo bonuses you can get.

OCC strengths would shine a little more on higher levels, but I think they are overshadowed in these game parameters.

Click to expand...

I have agree with cas. It's really easy to get enough cities to build Oxford University and it shouldn't be too hard to build the required Universities. One can try a new start whenever one doesn't get six (or set your own "restart" threshold) Settlers from Tribal Villages.

Plus there's no reason why you can't provide up to 95% of the Votes required to win (up to 57% of the world's Population). Just be sure you are well below the Domination land or population threshold. You would then need only one friend to put you over the top (> 60% Population combined with your friend).

Sun Tzu Wu

Sun Tzu Wu said:

I have agree with cas. It's really easy to get enough cities to build Oxford University and it shouldn't be too hard to build the required Universities. One can try a new start whenever one doesn't get six (or set your own "restart" threshold) Settlers from Tribal Villages.

Sun Tzu Wu

Click to expand...

Only need 4 cities for Oxford...it's a tiny map...which only reinforces the point that OCC is not the way to go here.

But I'd like someone to post an excellent OCC date. I'm 99.9% sure I can beat it with non-OCC and a good mapfinder start...with huts popping at least 1 settler and 1 worker.

cas

ps...I love OCC, but it's just not a winning strat with these settings.

cabert said:

edit: why would you need 2 GE? I used one in and got (with a chop) the UN in the first turn after mass media

Click to expand...

I had originally planned I would build it in a crap city that I would gift to Hatty who was #3 in pop and only pleased due to the large negative for running Joao's religion. As it turned out, the crap city caught her religion, I switched to that, and then could build the UN in my best production city making Joao my opponent.

I then had very poor planning with workers getting there to chop the only remaining forest. better planning I'd have had the chops ready to go with the workers already there, and probably could have saved at least 4 more turns.

But after I reached 1100AD I think I started playing very casually, knowing that (a) I would not have a competitive date, and (b) I would easily make a personal record for UN diplo. I wouldn't want to beat that PR by too much in one go... that way I can do it more often.

I also reckon multi-city is better than OCC, might have to give it a go.

Out of curiosity, what people here expect as the most early diplomatic victory date possible? Something around 500 AD?
I felt so dead in my last attempt, so perhaps with a specific date, it'll make it more spicy.

Tachywaxon said:

Out of curiosity, what people here expect as the most early diplomatic victory date possible? Something around 500 AD?
I felt so dead in my last attempt, so perhaps with a specific date, it'll make it more spicy.

Click to expand...

the best diplo win at warlord level to date is wastintime with 160AD.
I don't expect this one to be that fast because it's normal and not epic, but somewhere between 160 and 1000 AD.