Immortal University 55 - Ramesses II

NihilZero

WHEOOHRNY
Joined
Jul 20, 2009
Messages
1,161
Location
Dublin, Ireland
Greetings, Immortals and would-be Immortals (and indeed any other players of any level), and welcome to the Immortal University. I've been scanning through the archive, and it turns out that there are still a few leaders who have yet to make an appearance in this venerable series, so this week we are going to play one of them. And here he is:



He's Industrious, he's Spiritual, he looks good in eyeshadow - that's right, it's Ramesses II. It is generally accepted that Egypt are one of the top civs: starting traits are pretty much top tier, the War Chariot is a much-loved UU, and the UB has some niche uses. Opinion is a little more divided over which of Egypt's leaders is the best. I like them both.

Here's the opening scene:



This is the first start I rolled. I see no terrible glitches, so we'll go with this one. Pigs are pretty stellar, Elephants rule, but I'm not fond of calendar resources in the capital BFC as it will be aeons before they do anything useful. At least sugar can be farmed. Silk is weak. Oh well.

This is a Fractal map, which I find best for giving a truly unpredictable landscape. Huts and Events are, as always, conspicuous by their absence.

Before we start, here's the copy & paste bit where I get to pretend that I'm TMIT:

To play, just extract the WB save file into your worldbuilder saves directory, then play it. Use custom scenario if you want some extra settings to tickle your fancy. This series was designed for people learning immortal, so most people here will be at that level or trying to attain it, although deity players are welcome also. Hell, if you want to play this on NOBLE, go ahead, but I'm not peeling off the AI bonuses. The intention of this and any other game thread I post is to get better. Play whatever level you need in order to improve. Just remember, there are immortal bonuses and that's not going to change unless you WB edit it.

If you are aspiring IMM+, try to remember to add archery back to the barbs in WB. Every time you don't, a deity AI will kill a kitten, although there are a lot of kittens so it's not the end of the world if you prefer easymode barbs .

I do request people to list their difficulty and speed. In terms of updates, well nobody follows that anyway. Post in the manner you feel comfortable. Typical comparison dates are 1 AD, liberalism, and victory/defeat, as well as any major events. If in doubt, go with that.

We also have an initial Immortal/Normal autosave which is much more convenient since you can avoid all the worldbuilder shenanigans. It comes with my personal seal of approval (not least as my worldbuilder edits may contain hideous game-destroying errors that could cause your computer to explode) :goodjob:.
 

Attachments

PH looks tempting for two hammer city tile and to gain a flood plain; however, you also lose a decent chunk of forest and face potential low production overall. Moreover, it looks like there may be coast up there. I'd probably send the Warrior NE to check it out and then SIP unless he finds something good.

And who knows, I may even be able to play this game since work is a little less crazy this week than it has been for the past two months! I'm pretty rusty, so a forum game could be just the ticket.
 
Yeah, looking at edges, the tiles given up for the plains hill settle look like an unforested plains to sw, se looks like 4 Forest Grasslands, atleast 3 of which are riverside. It gains a Floodplains, + 2 riverside Grasslands+What ever the warrior reveals with its NE move (from SS i can't tell what they are as not able to zoom right in, but would guess grasslands jungle/forests from surounding terrain)
 
1 AD
Spoiler :

SIP. Research Hunting>AH>Mining>Myst>Pottery>Writing>BW>Aest.
Settled the gold/horse city then spawnbusted /peacefully expanded. Lots of land and almost no pressure to settle it fast. I stole 2 barb-workers with my woods 2 warrior, then got greedy and died to barb archers. Stole a barb-city from Gandhi, about to flip another. Right now we are 2nd in land but that is about to change, since we have alot of good land blocked off. The plan is to finish settling the rest of the land and then explore the world.

Quite possibly the easiest immortal map I've played so far.

Spoiler :
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Spoiler :
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@ amanbe :
Spoiler :
(first part deleted because) I really suck - (and poor play on my part). I believe you now. NihilZero set me straight. I hate settling into jungle but it looks like this map requires it (if only to prevent super Ghandi).
 
I'm in on Immortal.

Since you have not preferences, I pick Hatshepsut: I think she's the cutest. :lol: (just kidding).
yatta.

It would be politically incorrect for the Immortal University to discriminate on grounds of pulchritude. :mischief:

@ Jester Fool
Spoiler :
It's definitely possible to get a lot of cities peacefully here as the closest neighbour is quite far away and on the other side of the jungle. I didn't expand hard by any means and got seven cities by 1AD in a very leisurely manner (with an eighth added a couple of turns later) and that was without capturing any barb cities.

Just settle the gold to cover your expenses. I also cottaged the gold city (my only cottages). The pig and fish spot makes a nice settler and worker pump so you can free up the capital to build wonders if that's your thing. Settling jungle is a pain of course but Gandhi will take it all if we don't grab at least a couple of jungle cities. If you get the Pyramids (easy on this map) you can run your slider at 0% and still tech adequately.
 
It would be politically incorrect for the Immortal University to discriminate on grounds of pulchritude. :mischief:
Touche'! :goodjob:
You are the greatest diplomat ever! :king: (ehm... luckily dictionary.com exists. :D)
By the way, this reminds me the trashiest pool ever. :lol:

Ok, serious now. First session, up to turn 66, 1360BC
Spoiler :
Not too much to say: Worker first, 3 cities, 'mids almost done, 3 Libraries on their way (well, one is next building in the capital), killed many nasty barbarians...

Once done with bookshops: in Menphis barracks and *troops, in the other 2 cities Workers and Settlers, up to 6 cities.
Then Representation, Granaries and Libraries with a couple of scientists everywhere (scientists maybe not in Menphis); Literature, Great Library, then on my way toward the colonization of Alpha Centauri.
EDIT: diplomacy: met Gandhi and Saladin, worst enemy of each other, and they both founded their own religion, is it going to be fun...
No cheats, no reloads.
Save attached, Screen Shot in the spoiler.

Greetings,
yatta.
 
@ NihilZero :
Spoiler :
I didn't expand into the jungle at all (or fogbust properly) and Ghandi did claim ALL the jungle. I kinda thought that was why Ghandi got way out of hand. I did get the Pyramids every time and the gold spot but it looks like claiming a least a few jungle spots is the proper approach to prevent super Ghandi. I absolutely hate Ghandi - easily my worst enemy.
 
@Jester Fool
Spoiler :
Gandhi is a good techer but he's usually very soft militarily. He got twelve cities in my game but he was still an easy target for conquest. :dunno:
 
Second session, up to turn 119, 100AD
Spoiler :
Meet few other Civilizations, they all share the same religion and are all worst enemy of Gandhi, who is my neighborhood and adopts another religion... it's going to be fun. :scared:
Done with the 6th city and the Great Library in the capital (an Academy is also there), discovered Code of Laws and adopted Caste System, my empire makes 104 :science:/turn and I'm researching Civil Service in 10 turns*.





This is about my setup toward the colonization of Alpha Centauri.

No cheats, no reloads.
Save attached, Screen Shots in the spoiler.

@Nihil
Spoiler :
If you have a bit of time, can you tell me if this *(see spoiler above) is a good enough :science: output on Immortal? I mean for this turn? I think I'm doing quite well, but I have no references on Immortal... With Gandhi there running like a crazy (he is 1 turn from Music in 100AD), it is probably going to be a nice battle to get first to Education and Liberalism.
Ah... another question: from Liberalism I usually take Printing Press or Astronomy, depends on how much I want Rifling early; what are your most frequent choices?
Thanks in advance. :)
(by the way, this morning I was trying to be funny - probably I was not :confused: - with the white circles sentence. I mean, to me was clear that we were both joking...
I hope I didn't offend or annoy somehow :confused:
But I'm pretty sure not, you're ironic enough. :D )

Greetings,
yatta.
 
@Nihil
Spoiler :
If you have a bit of time, can you tell me if this *(see spoiler above) is a good enough :science: output on Immortal? I mean for this turn? I think I'm doing quite well, but I have no references on Immortal... With Gandhi there running like a crazy (he is 1 turn from Music in 100AD), it is probably going to be a nice battle to get first to Education and Liberalism.
Ah... another question: from Liberalism I usually take Printing Press or Astronomy, depends on how much I want Rifling early; what are your most frequent choices?
Thanks in advance. :)
(by the way, this morning I was trying to be funny - probably I was not :confused: - with the white circles sentence. I mean, to me was clear that we were both joking...
I hope I didn't offend or annoy somehow :confused:
But I'm pretty sure not, you're ironic enough. :D )

Spoiler :
I'm certainly not offended and never take anything to do with computer games seriously. ;) I assumed you were probably joking as you usually post in a light-hearted manner.

Regarding your beaker rate, it's not too bad. I've definitely had lower at 100AD. The important thing is that it keeps improving and growing.

What is your strategy for the Lib race? Are you relying on Great Scientist bulbs to keep up with the AIs and hopefully get ahead, or will your research be purely by beakers? Beaker rate is not the only consideration here. You may have a terrible beaker rate but enough Great People Points being generated to still overtake the AI and beat them to Lib (the problem then being how do you capitalise on this before they catch up and leave you behind, but that's another story).

From liberalism I usually take either 1) the highest beaker value monopoly tech I can get; 2) a key military tech that fits my military strategy at that point; or 3) a tech that comes with a bonus (in other words, a free great person) or unlocks some valuable economic advantage (Printing Press, for example, if you have a lot of cottages).

Some of my favourite ones to go for are Steel or Military tradition, but you can't always afford to delay it and sometimes have to settle for boring old Nationalism. :(.
 
@Nihil
Spoiler :
Well, nice to know that I'm kind of on your level this time (I mean, at least for :science: output) :D
What is your strategy for the Lib race?
Hope the Ai loses time going the Feudalism -> Guilds way before Education :p :lol:
Are you relying on Great Scientist bulbs to keep up with the AIs and hopefully get ahead, or will your research be purely by beakers?
I usually don't bulb if I have The Pyramids (so Representation), I settle in Oxford (+Academy) city:
base: +6 :science: +3 :science: = +9 :science:
mult: +100% Oxford; +50% Academy; +25% Library; +25% University; = +200%*
total: 9x3 = 27:science:/turn ; x100turn = 2700:science: I mean, this in just 100 turns! (+100:hammers:)
10 GS settled = 270:science:/turn, 27000 in 100 turns. (+1000:hammers:)
*(+250% with Observatory/Laboratory!)
Do you think this is a valid logic?
Beaker rate is not the only consideration here. You may have a terrible beaker rate but enough Great People Points being generated to still overtake the AI and beat them to Lib (the problem then being how do you capitalise on this before they catch up and leave you behind, but that's another story).
Exactly! Glad to know I'm not the only one to think this way! Better lose Liberalism (also if it is not nice) than lose The Internet! Really, I go for Biology, then Computer for Internet, and if I'm the 1st there I build Laboratories, go the shorter path toward Fusion (SKIPPING Robotics and useless 30' stuff, does anybody build it?), and I'm usually safe (unless a Cultural victory from some AI). I'm pretty tough in defensive wars, I'm not too afraid of that. I resist well, and a SE cannot be pillaged (well, farms can, but your settled GP not ^see_above^).
From liberalism I usually take either 1) the highest beaker value monopoly tech I can get;
Ok, clear. In this case it would be Astronomy, and if I can I like it, because of the Observatory and the fact that how you correctly say, it is the most expansive. But I miss Optics quite often winning the Liberalism race, so I often take PP. I mean, Optics, I have to remember to check if I can exchange Education for it 1 turn before Liberalism, but somehow I always forget to do it.
2) a key military tech that fits my military strategy at that point;
This would be PP in my case, since I'm going on the defensive and I likely will get Feudalism quite late so I also would like go directly toward Rifling (probably) skipping Longbows. A CGI (or CGII)* Rifle can defend decently in later eras and I don't disband it in the late game (while I would disband previous era units if I can't upgrade it or has too few promotions to spend money on a upgrade).
*(if I get a GG earlier, I settle it in my barracks city).
3) a tech that comes with a bonus (in other words, a free great person) or unlocks some valuable economic advantage (Printing Press, for example, if you have a lot of cottages).
Economics is another which would be good (for the GM), but I'm usually not able to take since I hardly have Banking before Liberalism. And anyways it doesn't cost too much, so the :science: difference and the Observatory make Astronomy kind of better. A GM is nice, of course, but be the first to have Observatories helps a bit the Internet race.
Some of my favourite ones to go for are Steel or Military tradition,
Yeah! They cost a lot! But I believe you need Chemistry or Nationalism... how you menage to get Chemistry before Liberalism?
but you can't always afford to delay it and sometimes have to settle for boring old Nationalism.
Which is actually not bad for a Cultural Victory (Taj Mahal), but I agree on the fact that it is not so "wow!"; I might even end up taking Gunpowder instead if I don't have it already and many other Civs already have Nationalism but not Gunpowder.

Ok, I cleared up my mind, thanks. I think I'll try for Astronomy, it costs a lot and besides Observatories, it opens the Scientific Method path, which is good (also if it kills the GreatLibrary) because you can Trade Remplaceable (how it is spelled! :mad:) Parts for it. I'll probably need Longbows, but that's not a major issue. If I miss Optics, I'll take PP, since next RP is good for trades and opens to Rifle.

Thanks Again for replying and for your considerations.
Any other comment of the subject is welcome! :)

yatta.
 
Up to 1 AD
Spoiler :

About to settle two more cities which will put me to 9. Cashed about 750 gold from SP by fail building in cap and one other city. Bribed sury to war with Gilga for Aest, Monarchy, and Currency, all of which the other AIs already had. Took one barb city and razed another.

Edit: HE is unlocked as well.

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Attachments

@ Yatta:

I usually don't bulb if I have The Pyramids (so Reprentation), I settle in Oxford (+Academy) city:
base: +6 +3 = +9 :science
mult: +100% Oxford; +50% Academy; +25% Library; +25% University; = +200%*
total: 9x3 = 27/turn ; x100turn = 2700 I mean, this in just 100 turns! (+100)
10 GS settled = 270/turn, 27000 in 100 turns. (+1000)
*(+250% with Observatory/Laboratory!)
Do you think this is a valid logic?

I have become very fond of settled Great People lately, all my recent games have centred around them. The results have been pretty good and I'm starting to think that settling is better than bulbing in a lot of situations.

But I believe you need Chemistry or Nationalism... how you menage to get Chemistry before Liberalism?

It can be done. You either need to be completely blowing away the AI in the tech race (not that likely on Immortal) or you need to trade shrewdly. Steel from Liberalism is very achievable. After Education you can finish most of Liberalism so that if an AI threatens to get it you can finish it fast, then you need to take a detour to Gunpowder (often tradeable), Engineering (almost always tradeable after Notre Dame is built) and then Chemistry, which you can bulb if necessary.
 
REVENGE on
Spoiler :
Ghandi
the hated :
Spoiler :
First off, the map gave me trouble (jungle which I just don't handle well) and then Ghandi got in my head. I chalk this up to a loss since I played the map 7 freaking times to try and claim enough good land without falling way behind in tech. So, since I could not honestly say I won the map - I got revenge instead. Basic elepult tech path and by the time he spammed cities to my borders, my huge army was ready to attack. The Jewish people triumphed over stupid Ghandi - too bad I didn't get to cap him. I'll take it though and maybe next time I should just try to play the map instead of pursuing a personal vendetta. :lol:
Spoiler :
RevengeOnGhandi.JPG
 
1800 Domination

Spoiler :

Took Steel with lib. Did a little drafting. Zero whipping. Used 1 bulb on education. Did zero golden ages. Eliminated Gandhi, Sury peace vassaled, eliminated Justinian, capped Gilga, capped Sal.

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