C2C - Fake Goods

Hydromancerx · May 4, 2011

Re-Posting it here for brainstorming ...

Facing the realization that we cannot add anymore resources I was thinking perhaps "fake goods" should be applied to supplement my "fake resources". "Fake Goods" would be 2 connected buildings. The first building is linked to a "fake resource" and only can be built in the city with that "resource fake" building built. The other building is given to all cities by the first building. This simulations a resources being spread across your nation like a normal resource would.

While temping to make one for every single "fake resource" I think these should be strategic and used sparely so not to lessen the rarity of "bonus resources". And example would be ...

Resource in City Vicinity -> Fake Resource Building -> Crafting Building -> Building Spreading Building ("Building X" spread to all cities) -> Building Who Requires "Building X"

I hope all that is clear and not too confusing.

Since I post this i have though about it more and I may not even need so many buildings. Perhaps the Fake Resource Buildings and/or Crafting Buildings can be made to produce "Fake Goods". Note the fake goods would be un-buildable buildings that only come from other buildings and are spread to every city in your empire.

For example the "Sheering Barn" could give free "Wool" buildings to every city in your nation and thus allow you yo own a "Fake Good". Sadly fake goods cannot be traded but at least its a start to go beyond the resource limit.

Hydromancerx · May 4, 2011

Fake Good Ideas

- Bamboo
- Books
- Honey
- Leather
- Milk
- Paper
- Rope
- Sand
- Scrolls
- Soap
- Stone Tools
- Tablets
- Wax
- Wood
- Wool

More to come!

Hydromancerx · May 5, 2011

Good news. After testing it out with "Good (Wood)" given free to every city by the Lumber Camp it appears you can indeed build a normal building that gives another building in every city without the game crashing. I was worried that you could only have one building give a building in every city. But apparently you can. This means I can not only fill in more "Fake Goods" but I will not need such complex dependency chains. For instance I plan on having some resource that all the Hunter's Camp make so I will not need to have a chain of Hunter's Camps. Which were only done due to the limit. So yay!

Oh and it also means I will not have to make another Shipwright if you can get the resource from another city. Thus an inland city can weave you some wool and then it can be given to your port city which can use it to build a sail maker or rope maker.

This will make people happier i suspect since I can keep my building webs but are less confusing/limiting than it is now.

EDIT: Anyone know if you can make a building give 2 or more free buildings?

little_cyclone · May 5, 2011

Hydromancerx said:
Oh and it also means I will not have to make another Shipwright if you can get the resource from another city. Thus an inland city can weave you some wool and then it can be given to your port city which can use it to build a sail maker or rope maker. This will make people happier i suspect since I can keep my building webs but are less confusing/limiting than it is now.

Excellent!

KingArthur666 · May 14, 2011

This sounds pretty cool! I can't wait to see it implemented.

Hydromancerx · May 14, 2011

KingArthur666 said:
This sounds pretty cool! I can't wait to see it implemented.

So far 24 goods have been implemented in C2C v11. I plan to do a lot more but they seem to work great so far.

Dancing Hoskuld · May 14, 2011

I think there are a few minor problems in your conversion. Taking fur as the resource, and Fur(good) as the good. It makes sense that "furrier" be available in all cities but not "fur trapper" building since it only makes sense near a fur resource. There was another one but I have only played a short way into the game before stopping and starting again with the stuff that missed the last update.

Hydromancerx · May 14, 2011

Dancing Hoskuld said:
I think there are a few minor problems in your conversion. Taking fur as the resource, and Fur(good) as the good. It makes sense that "furrier" be available in all cities but not "fur trapper" building since it only makes sense near a fur resource. There was another one but I have only played a short way into the game before stopping and starting again with the stuff that missed the last update.

Well it goes ...

Fur Resource -> Good (Pelt) -> Good (Fur)

Not sure what is a better name. Note the Pelt is suppose to represent a dead furry animal (different from Good (Carcass)). As for the other end I have ...

Hunted Animal Resource -> Good (Carcass) -> Good (Hide) -> Good (Leather)

I had to make the different between the Carcass and the Pelt because then you would have say elephants hunted for Fur or beavers hunted for leather.

There also maybe be some bugs still in there I have to fix. Let me know if something is questionable in its linked buildings.

In short ...

Beaver Traps = Trapper (Produces "Pelts")
Furrier = Processes "Pelts" into "Furs".

Baskedyt · May 17, 2011

Idea.

Can there be two types of buildings that gives goods? One that only give the good to the particulary city, and another that gives to every city?

For instance.
1) Apairy that gives good_honey to the city
2) Apairy Guild (with Tech_Guilds) that gives good_honey to every civ city?
offcourse building 2) has to be much more expensive than 1)

The idea is that in the beginning the manufacturer could only produce enough to supply the local city, but with tecnologoly advance was able to make a surplus an spread it to the neighboring cities.

PS. instead of building 1), one could just build good_honey directly...

velosepappe · May 17, 2011

Maybe you can let the trade income also vary with the amount of consumer goods produced in the city, depending of wether you have open border/free trade agreement.

Hydromancerx · May 17, 2011

Baskedyt said:
Idea.

Can there be two types of buildings that gives goods? One that only give the good to the particulary city, and another that gives to every city?

For instance.
1) Apairy that gives good_honey to the city
2) Apairy Guild (with Tech_Guilds) that gives good_honey to every civ city?
offcourse building 2) has to be much more expensive than 1)

The idea is that in the beginning the manufacturer could only produce enough to supply the local city, but with tecnologoly advance was able to make a surplus an spread it to the neighboring cities.

PS. instead of building 1), one could just build good_honey directly...

The problem is you cannot have a building build another building for free in only one city. It has to be all cities or none. Unless say you "build" building called "Good (Honey) in the city. Which seems a little weird to build a good and not produce a good. Plus all the goods are set so you cannot build them directly.

Remember these are "Fake" goods and not resources so while they are unlimited and can do many things they cannot do the same stuff as resources can (such as being traded).

Hydromancerx · May 18, 2011

So in testing my latest game it seems that the goods are boosting everything nicely to get starting cities to grow better, however I seem to have too much gold. I guess we will have to figure out how to counter the goods gold. Maybe some goods that have negative gold. Hmmm. I just don't know yet. I am open to ideas.

strategyonly · May 18, 2011

Hydromancerx said:
So in testing my latest game it seems that the goods are boosting everything nicely to get starting cities to grow better, however I seem to have too much gold. I guess we will have to figure out how to counter the goods gold. Maybe some goods that have negative gold. Hmmm. I just don't know yet. I am open to ideas.

You you its just "me" but i wont build any buildings no matter what if a negative :gold:

is anywhere in its actual info.

Maybe a :culture:

or

negative

but then a positive :health:

or even a

+, just thinking out loud. :crazyeye:

Hydromancerx · May 18, 2011

strategyonly said:
You you its just "me" but i wont build any buildings no matter what if a negative is anywhere in its actual info.

Maybe a or negative but then a positive or even a +, just thinking out loud.

Would you if it was limited to say building units or other important things? Also what about maintenance or even just making the civics cost gold?

Right now there are tons of food and gold from all the new buildings. Without taking stuff out I would like to balance it some how. You know adding some negative to the scale. Not just positive.

strategyonly · May 18, 2011

Hydromancerx said:
Would you if it was limited to say building units or other important things? Also what about maintenance or even just making the civics cost gold?

Right now there are tons of food and gold from all the new buildings. Without taking stuff out I would like to balance it some how. You know adding some negative to the scale. Not just positive.

Sounds like a "Charlie Sheen" saying :lol:

Dancing Hoskuld · May 18, 2011

Currently in the game I am getting +1000 gold with science at 80% and espionage at 20%. This rises throughout the classical period, then crashes sometime in the modern era. So some balance is needed.

Hydromancerx · May 18, 2011

Dancing Hoskuld said:
Currently in the game I am getting +1000 gold with science at 80% and espionage at 20%. This rises throughout the classical period, then crashes sometime in the modern era. So some balance is needed.

Well we can either having the buildings that produce stuff give no gold and have te gold on the goods, but then the AI will not build the buildings (as well as give no motivation to the players). But then if the goods have no gold (if its that type of good) then there will be little reason to even to make the building which builds them (or even have goods).

Thus we must find some 3rd choice which gives a reason to have that much gold. Any ideas?

strategyonly · May 19, 2011

I think we might have to reconsider things about the Shipwright. I am on a Continent with alot of resources (and i mean alot) but i still cant get a shipwright built? Just cant get far with a war canoe or carry troops (main downfall). I know what you have is correct (in theory) but getting to those theories are very very hard. Of course IMHO :rolleyes:

DRJ · May 19, 2011

I like the fake goods as far as they allow to build buildings, they should not provide gold or food to cities, though.

Regarding the shipwright, I think the requirements should be simpler:

-Coast
-timber as strategic resource (must not be in city vicinity) or a "lumberjack quest" national wonder which would provide timber if not accessible [important for island starts] - much like the "national horse trainer" which I think was a very good idea!
lumberjack quest should not be that cheap and should require forest in city vicinity.
-lumber camp (the basic cheap building coming with wood working)

The goods like rope (or whatever else are/could be used for shipping, f.e. silk) could then provide certain bonusses to ships like +1 movement as a new "superior craftmanship" promotion.

That way, goods can be good to have but you can get access to important buildings like the shipwritght easier, which at the moment is really kind of confusing.

Dancing Hoskuld · May 19, 2011

strategyonly said:
I think we might have to reconsider things about the Shipwright. I am on a Continent with alot of resources (and i mean alot) but i still cant get a shipwright built? Just cant get far with a war canoe or carry troops (main downfall). I know what you have is correct (in theory) but getting to those theories are very very hard. Of course IMHO

Have you put in the update Hydro provided? There was a bug in the buildings that went out with C2C 11 which meant that no one could build ships.

DRJ said:
I like the fake goods as far as they allow to build buildings, they should not provide gold or food to cities, though.

Regarding the shipwright, I think the requirements should be simpler:

-Coast
-timber as strategic resource (must not be in city vicinity) or a "lumberjack quest" national wonder which would provide timber if not accessible [important for island starts] - much like the "national horse trainer" which I think was a very good idea!
lumberjack quest should not be that cheap and should require forest in city vicinity.
-lumber camp (the basic cheap building coming with wood working)

The goods like rope (or whatever else are/could be used for shipping, f.e. silk) could then provide certain bonusses to ships like +1 movement as a new "superior craftmanship" promotion.

That way, goods can be good to have but you can get access to important buildings like the shipwritght easier, which at the moment is really kind of confusing.

Or they could make building the ship units faster. The problem is making the buildings valuable to the AI so they will build them. Which is why they have to provide a direct benefit in terms of gold, culture, food, hammers or espionage. Promotions, XP and improved speed of unit building may be understood by the AI and need to be tried out.

C2C - Fake Goods

C2C Modder

C2C Modder

C2C Modder

Loyal Civ4 & C2C mod player

Warlord

C2C Modder

Deity

C2C Modder

Concerned citizen

Warlord

C2C Modder

C2C Modder

C2C Supreme Commander

C2C Modder

C2C Supreme Commander

Deity

C2C Modder

C2C Supreme Commander

Hedonist

Deity

Similar threads