Deity Keshik Fun?

First Thread I'm starting in here, I hope it is ok and I hope someone might be interested in it.

This attached is a Turn 0 Game AutoSave** of a Deity Genghis Khan Random Small* Pangea Map, Standard Speed, Standard Settings, No Huts, No Events, No Tech Trading*.
*(to make the challenge a bit more achievable).



The challenge, of course, is to Conquer the World in Genghis Style, possibly before discovering Feudalism.

I'm trying to, and I fear I'll miss the target; but I believe it isn't impossible, especially after seeing the skills of some CivIV Masters and Veterans posting in here.

If someone is up for some early era mounted rush fun, IMO this is a fun map to play.

I'll post the Epic Saga about the modest (and likely negative) results of my War Campaign as soon as I finish and find some time to write it up.

Of course, any feedback is welcome, and the more detailed it is, the more welcome it will be.

Brave challegers, and a bit less brave lurkers: have fun!

**(Note: the AutoSave was opened few times to make sure it was the correct map before posting it and to take the Settings Screen Shot above; since each time is opened it saves again on itself, it looks like few sessions have been played in turn 0. But nothing has been done and nothing has been edited in the World Builder: it is just a simple Turn 0 Random Generated Map).

Greetings,
yatta.

Man, this level is hard! (but fun...)
To take another Capital City I spent 100 turns, defeating zillions of enemy units coming from everywhere like flies.

First Deity Map I ever tried, so comments and other examples on the same map are welcome.

Save Game Attached.

btw, I am doing something not correct posting this here?
I mean proposing others players to play a map in the strategy section?
I guess not, since I see others do the same... but in the case I'm doing something not correct (like this goes in another section), I'm sorry, and please tell me.

Greetings,
yatta.

It's Kublai you want to play not Genghis.

I'll take a look at the save.

*edit*

Ok looked at the save and not quite sure what you're doing here.

Looks like you rushed with only 1 town and now you're losing bad.

If you're going to rush with only 1 town you might as well oracle HBR. What else would you be building while you wait for HBR?

Not in slavery so that means you haven't whipped anything??

Teching math is useless, you don't have enough forests to justify self teching math. Should be trying to get alpha by now.

Haven't met all the civs by 300 BC ( very late ), someone might have alpha right now.

Looks like you had only 1 worker for most of the game. Should have had 2 for more chopping.

Can't comment much on diplo because you haven't met everyone ( and why the hell not? ).

yatta - this is the right section

Tough starting position indeed. I'm interested to see how AZ plays this one out. The thing that always peeves me about Deity is how fast the AI expands. The Dutch - obvious first target - had circle my entire empire by a very early date. Made the mistake of not beelining HBR fast enough.

In your postion, Willie should be very close to longbows. (oh...looks like you have not found the joys of the BUG mod yet)

I'll take a look at the save.

Click to expand...

Thanks!
But I guess it is virtually lost already.
My plan was to take 1 or 2 civilization cities with Keshik, the rest with Cats before Feudalism. But 100 turns for just one city screwed it up already I guess.
I want to know if it is possible on Deity. I mean, on Emperor if after the rush phase I make toward construction, I often end-up able to conquer even a standard map with cats+elephants/Keshik.
Greetings,
yatta.

yatta - this is the right section

Click to expand...

Thanks.

Tough starting position indeed. I'm interested to see how AZ plays this one out.

Click to expand...

Who's not?

The thing that always peeves me about Deity is how fast the AI expands.

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Yeah, definitively!!! No time to make 4 Keshik, and a new city is already there!!!

Greetings,
yatta.

@AZ edit:
yeah, bad game. I really wanted to take Amsterdam as second city, it was close enough, but eventually Chariots were not enough and it toke a second attack with Keshik. At that point I just wanted at least to take a Capital on Deity
The map is Small, 5 civ. i met everybody AFAIK.
Greetings,
yatta.

EDIT: DISCLAIMER: I'm not a Deity level player, this is my first game on Deity. I wanted to propose something kind of hard but quick to realize to understand how better players than I am would face the task, and if this is a possible plan on Deity (or what would be the alternative on this map).

I do love keshiks, maybe I will give this a try. I never play small maps

Jaybone said:

I do love keshiks, maybe I will give this a try.

Click to expand...

If you decide to do so, thanks for the feedback!

I never play small maps

Click to expand...

I believe that on a Small Map it is (quite obviously IMO) easier...
...but feel free to take the ^^challenge on a Standard Map!
(and it would definitively impress me if someone could achieve that on Deity!)

Greetings,
yatta.

Well I'll download this and have a quick look at the start, and then probably play it tomorrow. Not very consistent on Deity so not expecting to win

Habitus said:

Well I'll download this and have a quick look at the start, and then probably play it tomorrow. Not very consistent on Deity so not expecting to win

Click to expand...

No problem with that.
I'm interested in getting few more ideas on how to manage a Deity start.

---

Second attempt, Turn 60, 1600BC, things are definitively better (thanks AZ!).

O v e r v i e w
founded a Second City and trained a Second Worker instead of suiciding Chariots in an early rush.

R e s e a r c h
15/Turn at 80% with 0/Turn
Starting Tech: TheWheel, Hunting.
Tech path: AnimalHausbandry >> Mining >> HorsebackRiding >> Archery >> BronzeWorking
Spent 1 Turn (of 5) on Agriculture (to Farm 2 tiles of land around the 2nd City).
Next research should be Writing.

U n i t s
1 x 7XP Keshik, 2 x 5XP Chariots, 1 x 2XP Scout, 2 x Workers.

C a p i t a l
Production: Worker >> Barracks >> 2 x Chariot >> Settler >> Worker >> Ger >> *Keshik
Pop 5, Cap, 15/Turn, 12/Turn at 80%

2 n d C i t y
Production: Barracks >> Ger (>> *Keshik)
Pop 3, -1 to Cap, not growing (till Agriculture), 8/Turn, 3.20/Turn at 80%

N o t e s
There is a Barbarian City on the West I could attack in the near future.
Bronze Working discovered last turn, no revolution yet, workers ready to chop.
Met all the others Civilization, didn't take any diplomatic initiative yet.

Game Save Attached.
Any comment and any other attempt to play the map is welcome.

Greetings,
yatta.

Just alittle tip, AH takes 156 on Deity Small, Mining 78, working the Riverside Cows you earn 13 beakers towards AH, and 11 towards Mining. 156/13 = 12 turns with no overflow, 78 = 8 with 10 overflow, but if on the last turn of AH you work a normal 3 food/hammer tile instead so it doesn't finish then go back to the Cows, you overflow 12, letting Mining finish in 6 Turns with no overflow ie 1 Turn earlier than no micro

Hmm just looked at your SS, and since you moved off the hill this wouldn't of been possible on your game anyway

LoL and after i posted that i go mess up and die during the first HA rush cause i didn't notice one of the cities was on a hill and choose that as my first target loosing far too many HA

To my non-deity eyes, settling Beshbalik 1SE seems like a better spot: can still work the FP for food, 4 forests in the small cross for chops, grass hills as well.

I think in my next game i'll settle on the horses, gives me instant access to them so i can make a chariot right after worker for Barbs, a 2 Hammer City Tile after AH, and some extra Hills+Forests. Also with the river i can settle further along it for instant trade route, it would give the 2nd city low food but afair few tree is chop.

Just alittle tip, ... letting Mining finish in 6 Turns with no overflow ie 1 Turn earlier than no micro

Click to expand...

Wow... in Deity you have to micro so much!?
Thanks for the advice, also if thinking about it I don't really get why you gain one turn at the end. I mean, how can +2 from overflow cut out 2 researching turns?

LoL and after i posted that i go mess up and die during the first HA rush cause i didn't notice one of the cities was on a hill and choose that as my first target loosing far too many HA

Click to expand...

If this can make you happier, I had killed the same way a good stack of Chariots in my first attempt, so this time I guess I'm not moving before having 14 or more Keshik ready this time... and I'm thinking on taking the Barbarian city first, I don't know yet. In those videos I'm watching (part1,part2) AZ indicates 750BC as a good timing for an HA rush, so I'll be early on time anyways in any case. In this second attempt I'd like at least take out at least 1 Civilization with Kashiks, then build a Library. If I can manage a Cats+whatever rush-attack later, good, if not surviving to the end would be ok.
(yeah, I know, I'm probably weird, but if I can achieve at least a partial goal, then I have more fun resisting on harder levels than dominating on lower ones )

I think in my next game i'll settle on the horses, gives me instant access to them so i can make a chariot right after worker for Barbs, a 2 Hammer City Tile after AH, and some extra Hills+Forests. Also with the river i can settle further along it for instant trade route, it would give the 2nd city low food but afair few tree is chop.

Click to expand...

Make sure you'll let me now how it works out!

To my non-deity eyes, settling Beshbalik 1SE seems like a better spot: can still work the FP for food, 4 forests in the small cross for chops, grass hills as well.

Click to expand...

Good Call! (at least for my wanna-be Immortal someday eyes)
Especially for the Grass hill part, since I have to work a 1f,2h,1c tile in the Capital in order to leave a mined hill (1f,3h) workable to Beshbalik. Aargh... I should think about that!

Thanks to both for the tips!

Greetings,
yatta.

You just happen to be 1 Beaker off Mining on T19, playing with overflow lets you be 1 beaker higher on T19 and get it Overflow on the techs with requirements (ie everything not on same row as Fishing - Mining) gets atleast some bonus to researching it so overflowing that is better than overflowing the starting techs

The Micro isn't needed on Deity but it helps out , if you want to see lots of micro read some of kossin's threads. The best players know most of this stuff and can judge it roughly enough not to do lots of calcs (or any at all) but HoF players i think can spends hours doing calcs to work out how to win 1 or 2 turns earlier

@Habitus

Overflow on the techs with requirements (ie everything not on same row as Fishing - Mining) gets atleast some bonus to researching it so overflowing that is better than overflowing the starting techs

Click to expand...

Ok, got it, thanks.
Hunting "OR" requirement of Animal Husbandry gives a bonus, so spending one more turn there makes you get to Mining 1 turn earlier. Unless you have a worker ready to improve the "Animal" tile (in that case you lose 1 turn of tile improvement), which is unlikely to happen in the beginning of the game, you get an advantage.
Good call, nice to know! Thanks for spending your time explaining it.
(but I sincerely don't know if I'll remember this the next time I'll play in this situation).

Off Topic @Habitus
(sorry all for all the cross posting, but I'll end up messing up things discussing about the same subject with the same person on 3 different threads, especially since it is past 3:00 AM here and I'm quite tired).
Thanks for the links to the Toku video in the other thread! By the way, sorry if I'm not going to start the unrestricted leaders game you posted, but partly is because of that: after finishing watching the 2 HA rush videos, I watched all the 4 Deity Toku failure (AZ, AZ, AZ, TMIT) you linked, spending so much time (actually too much time) tonight that I couldn't even go on with this Keshik game here.
And at this point in the next days in my free time I'll have to see the successful Deity Toku video, then finish to watch the University #55 videos before I'll completely forget what they are about. And I care about find out what I can do on this map, going on with my second attempt on it. And when boss Nihil posts it I want to play the next Immortal University: after 1L,1W,1L (for just 1 turn ) I'm really motivated to do well in the next.
I'm a slow player and my CivIV time the next days won't even be so much. So, sorry again for skipping it, but since I know I won't be able to end up 3 CivIV games in the next 10-14 days, I'm not in for the Unrestricted Leaders game you posted (but I'll probably play the next one of the series).
//Off Topic

Greetings,
yatta.

Second attempt, Second Session, Turn 87, 700BC, things are going pretty well!

O v e r v i e w

R e s e a r c h
20/Turn at 100% with -13/Turn (with 203 in the Treasury).
Starting Tech: TheWheel, Hunting.
Tech path: AnimalHausbandry >> Mining >> HorsebackRiding >> Archery >> BronzeWorking >> Agriculture >> Writing
Researching Mathematics (13 Turn Left to Discover it).

U n i t s
11 x Keshik:
- 1 x 12XP Combat I + Shock + (Combat II next Turn I guess)
- 1 x 9XP Combat I + Medic I
- 2 x 8XP Flanking I + Flanking II to "soften up with >50% survive"
- 3 x 8XP Combat I + Shock
- 2 x 7XP Combat I + Shock
- 2 x 7XP not yet promoted (one Flanking I-II, one Combat I + Shock, I guess)
2 x Chariots (both 5XP Combat I + Medic I)
1 x Scout (2XP promoted to something I don't remember)
3 x Workers

C a p i t a l
Production: Worker >> Barracks >> 2 x Chariot >> Settler >> Worker >> Ger >> *Keshik
Pop 5, Cap, 15/Turn, 15/Turn at 100%

2 n d C i t y
Production: Barracks >> Ger >> *Keshik
Pop 4, Cap, 10/Turn, 5/Turn at 100%

C o n q u e r e d C i t y
Wonders / Buildings / SettledGP: GreatWall, TempleOfArtemis, ScotlandYard / Forge / GreatProphet
Pop6, in revolt.

N o t e s

Game Save Attached.
Any comment and any other attempt to play the map is welcome.

Greetings,
yatta.

I don't really have time to play any civ games this weekend, but since no one has answered you yet I decided to do a quick look around.

I would not have done the opening you did here. Instead of putting 100 hammers into a silly settler, I would have built 1 or 2 more workers. Then I would have super-chopped all those forests you had all over the place near the capital to get a huge army up very quick. Then I would have done a full steam-roll over Willem, capturing everything in the way up to his capital (and then some).

I also dont' get some things, like putting silly flank promos on a unit, just to get a 50% chance to survive (laugh). If it's a Sentry though, then I won't complain.

Seems you made things harder for yourself with these game settings than need to be. By turning off tech trades you now can't use your power to extort, and you severly cut your diplo options, not to mention your vassals become almost useless.

There's a bunch of other issues but I guess everyone is entitled to their own way of winning (& dying!).

I have a feeling from what I see though you are going to end up having to make a third attempt though Unless you get lucky and Willem somehow builds you the cistine and lets you back-door a culture or something.

Too bad you didn't get India's capital instead. Looks like it's a game-breaker, and I bet She is going to turn into a monster with that.

BTW, one thing that will go well with your strategy is to try Willem of Mongols (or do I have that reversed?). Also, if you get frustrated dying here, there is no shame in dropping down to immortal to get your confidence up, before you reach for the stars again.