Immortal Minimalism, Chapter I - Hatshepsut

yatta77 · May 28, 2011

I m m o r t a l . M i n i m a l i s m

Chapter I

H a t s h e p s u t . o f . E g y p t

I hope it is ok with me posting a modest minimal series.

(if it is not, please tell me, thanks).

.: O v e r V i e w

Playing on Immortal, try to achieve a Peaceful Victory (likely Space Race or Cultural) with various Leaders and Civilizations.

The primary goal is, besides having fun of course

, improve my English, reading and writing about an entertaining subject (feel free to correct the sentences!).

Other than that, the target is to achieve a Victory in about 60%~75% of the Games attempted, using all the leader traits.

.: S e t t i n g s

Civ IV BtS 3.19, Immortal Level, Fractal Map (using Always the First Random Generated Map), all Standard, No Huts, No Events.

Spoiler :

.: C o n d i t i o n s

The only Self-Restriction: it is Not Allowed to Declare Wars (Defensive Pacts are Allowed).

.: F a i r P l a y

First Attempt Only (always, no matter the result), No Cheats, No Reloads, Never Opening/Using the World Builder.

To avoid the risk of comments on things shouldn't be known yet, the Initial, Intermediates and Final Game Save Files will be posted only once Finished with the Game.

.: D i s c l a i m e r s

to Veterans
The way I play might likely contradict the commonly accepted correct approach: no matter that, I'm silly, arrogant and stubborn enough to play this way, sorry. Please accept it, and always remember that the intent here is to play a game and practice a foreign language, not to teach or prove wrong anything.
Feel Free to give opinions and advices, they will be taken into consideration, I promise I will meditate on them; but, no offenses here, don't expect them to be always followed. Feel free to contradict, comment and criticize, you are welcome to join the conversation, irony is a must, sarcasm is accepted and friendly returned; but please try to be polite, and not make it a fanatical religion war: it is a friendly community and it's just a video game after all! Thanks.

to Beginners
Consider this just as a silly experiment you might be interested into. If you wonder about something, feel free to ask, I welcome here any discussion about Civilization IV concepts, mechanisms and strategies: you are definitively not bothering! But please always remember that a more conformist and commonly considered stronger approach exists, which you might likely prefer to follow while learning the game: better players than I am wrote guides on consolidated basic strategies, and will be happy to give you further wise advice on an orthodox and likely more efficient approach!

@All: I hope this might be an interesting reading. Have fun!

Feedback Welcome!

Greetings,
yatta.

---

Starting Location Map

Spoiler :

So so. It is a bit bothering that, with two Rivers nearby, the Corn tile doesn't have access to Fresh Water.
Comments?

lymond · May 28, 2011

Your English looks exceptional from what I've read. Only advice to give is that "advice" is the plural of advice.

(i.e., "advices" is not a word) Where ya from?

Maybe in a future game, you can try a peaceful domination victory on a Pangaea.

oranje willem · May 28, 2011

"Comments? "
Where is the map?

joanne · May 28, 2011

yatta77 said:
try to achieve a Peaceful Victory (likely Space Race or Cultural)

By this you mean non-peaceful victories are allowed but only when necessary and are highly discouraged, not exclusively peaceful victories after a peaceful game only, right? One of the most powerful pieces of advice I've come across here is: play the map & AIs first, then decide on strategy and victory condition and see where your civ & leader's uniques & traits fit in.

yatta77 said:
The primary goal is, besides having fun of course , improve my English, writing and reading about an entertaining subject (feel free to correct the sentences!).

Same here I've seen a noticeable improvement on my english writing and vocabulary since joining, but what really gave me english writing "experience points" was taking on the "barbaric" conspiracists & pseudoscientists elsewhere in the internet: show them the slightest trace of common sense and for lack of any real arguments they automatically turn into grammar nazis and teach you english for free

lymond said:
Maybe in a future game, you can try a peaceful domination victory on a Pangaea.

Does that involve culture flipping/peace vassaling everyone or some other method I'm unaware of? Seems kind of oxymoronic at first glance

yatta77 · May 28, 2011

lymond said:
Only advice to give is that "advice" is the plural of advice.

Thanks! Sincerely Appreciated! I didn't know that!

Spoiler :

Maybe in a future game, you can try a peaceful domination victory on a Pangaea.

Yes, maybe. I never tried it. But I might make a first attempt on an easier level someday.

Back on topic: settle in place? Move the Warrior first?

Greetings,
yatta.

yatta77 · May 28, 2011

joanne said:
By this you mean non-peaceful victories are allowed but only when necessary and are highly discouraged, not exclusively peaceful victories after a peaceful game only, right? One of the most powerful pieces of advice I've come across here is: play the map & AIs first, then decide on strategy and victory condition and see where your civ & leader's uniques & traits fit in.

It just means that I cannot declare a war in this series. The only exception is if I'm in a Defensive Pact and end up automatically doing so in case my "ally" get attacked. If somebody declares on me, I can act how I please on signing a Peace Treaty or not.
This is a minimalist flavored game, where first the condition is set, then the map is generated. If you are curious about what it is, you are welcome to follow it!

I believe I'm not doing anything against the Forum Rules playing the game the ways I know best; that said, if I'm bothering somebody playing differently, please just say so, I'll quit, without bad feelings from my side.

Same here I've seen a noticeable improvement on my english writing and vocabulary since joining, but what really gave me english writing "experience points" was taking on the "barbaric" conspiracists & pseudoscientists elsewhere in the internet: show them the slightest trace of common sense and for lack of any real arguments they automatically turn into grammar nazis and teach you english for free

I don't have time for those, sorry. And it is not my gender of fun activity.
I spent a good part of my internet time here those last weeks, because I enjoy the topics and the community.

Does that involve culture flipping/peace vassaling everyone or some other method I'm unaware of? Seems kind of oxymoronic at first glance

I guess it is that. I sow games played that way. Not really my gender of game, but I can try someday.

Thanks for your feedback

Back on topic: settle in place? Move the Warrior first?

Greetings,
yatta.

yatta77 · May 28, 2011

oranje willem said:
Where is the map?

yatta77 said:
To avoid the risk of comments on things shouldn't be known yet, the Initial, Intermediates and Final Game Save Files will be posted only once Finished with the Game.

I'll post the first session later or tomorrow, I still don't know if I have time to play tonight.

Greetings all.
yatta.

Zx Zero Zx · May 28, 2011

What not declaring war? That takes all the fun out of the game!

Habitus · May 28, 2011

I played a game for fun once where i wasn't allow to declare war but had to accept all the AI demands for war, due religious tensions it was probably the most blood thirsty game i've played

Um the Muse · May 28, 2011

Hey, yatta. Your English is already quite good and English is a difficult language to master.

If you're sure that you want corrections, though, I'm happy to help. Just, please don't be offended or discouraged by my comments. Btw, I don't play as high a level, so I can't really give good advice gamewise for you, but that hasn't ever stopped me yet :lol:

Spoiler :

yatta77 said:
I hope it is ok with me posting a modest minimal series.

What did you mean by "minimal series"? When you wrote that title, I imagined a game where you did as little as possible. Perhaps not building any buildings, or trying to win with the smallest empire as you can.

Perhaps "I hope it is ok to post a mini-series."

The primary goal is, besides having fun of course , to improve my English, reading and writing about an entertaining subject (feel free to correct the sentences!).

I don't know why, but reading always proceeds writing. This isn't really a grammar thing, but it jars the reader a little bit. Also, anybody could be forgiven for missing this, but you need the word "to" to proceed any infinitive (just like the second "to" in this sentence).

Other than that, the target is to achieve a Victory in about 60%~75% of the Games attempted, using all the leader traits.

You have a bad habit of capitalizing random words. This is probably from video games and posting to game forums. A type of victory should be capitalized, as it a title (and therefore a proper name), but "game" and "victory" should both be minisculized. You make this mistake throughout the post, so I won't point them out anymore.

To avoid the risk of comments on things shouldn't be known yet, the Initial, Intermediates and Final Game Save Files will be posted only once Finished with the Game.

I don't know what happened here; the grammar is atrocious. I can't make heads or tails of what you're trying to say. The confusing part is that you're missing the subject. Who will only post save files once he/she has finished the game?

You should change the sentence to something like, "To avoid spoilers, I will only post one save file from the beginning, middle, and the end."

The way I play might likely contradict the commonly accepted "correct" approach: no matter that, I'm silly, arrogant and stubborn enough to play this way, sorry. Please accept it, and always remember that the intent here is to play a game and practice a foreign language; not to teach or prove anything.
Feel Free to give opinions and advice, they will be taken into consideration, I promise I will meditate on them; but, no offenses here, don't expect them to be always followed. Feel free to contradict, comment and criticize, you are welcome to join the conversation, irony is a must, sarcasm is accepted and friendly returned; but please try to be polite, and not make it a fanatical religion war: it is a friendly community and it's just a video game after all! Thanks.

Consider this just as a silly experiment you might be interested in. If you wonder about something, feel free to ask, I welcome any discussion about Civilization IV concepts, mechanisms and strategies: you are definitely not bothering me! But please always remember that a more conformist and commonly considered stronger approach exists, which you might likely prefer to follow while learning the game: better players than I am wrote guides on consolidated basic strategies, and will be happy to give you further wise advices on an orthodox and likely more efficient approach!

Certain words that you use are close to the right word, but are a little off: "gender" instead of "type" (gender is usually considered clearing up or answering the question "male or female," type is more generically used)

Dhoomstriker · May 28, 2011

lymond said:
Only advice to give is that "advice" is the plural of advice. (i.e., "advices" is not a word)

I would tend to suggest sticking with "advice," as lymond advises, despite the apparent pluralisation that was used for diplomats. In all likelihood, it was the media that wrote the word "advices" when they were referring to advice from diplomats, and the media is known for its atrociously horrible grammar.

On that note, "functionalities" is not a word, since the word "functionality" is a non-countable noun. You can have "several items" of functionality (that need to be implemented, tested, etc), but there is no such word as "funcitonalities." I didn't see you misusing this word, but others on these forums have misused it, so we might as well discuss it now that a discussion on grammar IS on topic. :cool:

As for your game, it looks like there is Coast to the east, so it might be worth sending the Warrior 1NE just to see if:
- It is really a Coast or perhaps just a Lake
- If settling in-place might mess up the use of a Seafood Resource
- If you can actually get a Seafood Resource by moving, which might help you to feel better about the Corn Resource

Of course, you could also move the Warrior 1SW onto the Grassland Hills square. If you don't like what you see, you could consider moving the Settler 1NE onto the Plains Hills River square and use that new info to help you decide where to settle on Turn 1 (as opposed to settling on the initial Turn 0).

Settling in-place is not that bad, though... the Corn will be automatically irrigated once you learn Civil Service and you may see a second Food Resource appear out of the fog once you have settled.

Dhoomstriker · May 28, 2011

yatta77 said:
It just means that I cannot declare a war in this series. The only exception is if I'm in a Defensive Pact and end up automatically doing so in case my "ally" get attacked.

There might be other exception cases. For example, the Apostolic Palace may induce you to declare war. It is probably good for you to decide now whether you will:
a) be allowed to vote "yes" for such a war, or any other voting option that you wish to choose at the time
b) possibly even be allowed to propose a resolution to start a war against another player via the Apostolic Palace
c) be forced to always defy OR vote "no" for such a war
d) be forced to always defy such a vote

yatta77 · May 28, 2011

Session 1, Turn 52, 1920 BC

Turn 0: Moved the Warrior 1 North, nothing special.

Spoiler :

Turn 0: Settled in Place. Wow! Two Elephants! +1

Cap!
Research: Hunting; Production (Thebes): Worker

Spoiler :

Turn 3: Cultural Creative Border Pop, Working Ivory for an extra :commerce:

Spoiler :

Turn 10: The Warrior Scouted in the North, found a decent cow-corn City Spot, and defending killed a Lion.
Hinduism was Founded; Research: Mining (halfway)

Spoiler :

Turn 19: The Worker Farmed the Corn near the Capital, next the Rice
Research: Masonry (halfway); Production (Thebes): Warrior (almost finished) >> Warrior

Spoiler :

Turn 30: Two Warrior Finished Scouting finding another decent cow-fant City Spot, and fortified in Western Forests.
The Third Warrior Garrisons the Capital for

.
The Worker Farmed the Rice, built a Camp on one Ivory and started a Camp in the next.
Here the first important choice:
(a) Research Animal Husbandry -> Writing for earlier (Creative Cheap) Libraries
(b) Research Bronze Working and build The Pyramids
There are many good reason IMO for the Pyramids: first of all I don't like an AI to freely run Representation the whole Game while I'm spending research turns toward Monarchy and resources on Unit to Garrison the Cities for

purposes; then the early Great Engineer could be useful to build The Great Library, which is useful to make sure I'm not missing the Liberalism Rendez-Vous, which is definitively important since at this point I already decided I'll have space enough for the 6 Oxford required Cities so I'm running for a Space Race; ultimately, I'm Alone!
So I picked (b).
Research: Bronze Working (halfway); Production (Thebes): The Pyramids

Spoiler :

Turn 38: Thebes Size at 5 (working all improved tiles), Started a Settler.
Research: discovered Bronze Working, next Animal Husbandry >> Writing
Production (Thebes): Settler

Spoiler :

Turn 42: Chopped a GrassHill Forest grown in order to Hurry a bit the Settler and later build a Mine.
The Forest Fortified Warriors keep on getting Experience from Barbarians.

Spoiler :

Turn 45: Mansa Musa shows up. Doesn't have Writing yet (since no Open Border Treaty is possible).
The Settler is ready to Settle (what else a settler can do?) the Western cow-fant Spot.
Production (Thebes): The Pyramids

Spoiler :

Turn 46: Animal Husbandry in. Wow, that's Lucky! Two Horses in the City Fat Cross of my next planned Cities!
I'll Settle Menphis on the cow-fant Spot anyways since I don't know where Mansa Musa is with his expansion already.
Production (Thebes): The Pyramids
Production (Menphis): Settler
Research: Writing

Spoiler :

Turn 46: A bit of Micro to allow Menphis to work an improved Tile.

Spoiler :

Turn 51: Cultural Creative Border Pop in Menphis, the Fortified Warriors keep on Defending their Forests

Spoiler :

Turn 52: Thebes at Size 6 Working all Improved Tiled, and Menphis

Spoiler :

Ok, 2:14 AM here, I'm a bit tired for an English class now.

Thanks for All the FeedBack! Sincerely Appreciated!

(I'm lucky! People usually pays teachers for that!)

I'll reply to everybody I didn't already tomorrow.
And correct the Opening Post. Promise.

Greetings,
yatta.

lymond · May 28, 2011

joanne said:
Does that involve culture flipping/peace vassaling everyone or some other method I'm unaware of? Seems kind of oxymoronic at first glance

Yep, culture and espionage are the way to go. It's rare, but there have been a few of these types of games in the past. Interestingly, I'm involved in one right now. An SG called "A Perfect Spy". Check it out

I never knew English was not your first language. Can't tell at all.

@yatta

General note on your OP comment about "I hope it's ok...". You have every right to post a series on this forum. Folks are always looking for more games to play anyway. Also...

Spoiler :

Dhoomstriker · May 28, 2011

I would strongly consider moving the "cow corn" settling location 1NE. That way, it can:
1. Be on a River for the Fresh Water bonus
2. Pick up 2 nice Grassland Hills squares
3. Be Coastal and thus make decent use out of the Coast squares

You have already used the Cow in Memphis, but if you REALLY want to share that Cow with a second City, consider settling on the Fur, to pick up the Fish as well as being able to share the Cow.

Another possibility is to settle one City on top of the Plains Horse square in the north (for Fish, Fur, and Shared Cow) as well as a City SE + E of the Grassland Corn River (NE + NE + N of the capital) in order to make use of all 3 Grassland Hills squares and because you are Creative and thus will get the Corn within your borders with relative easy.

At least with this second option, you will still get a bit of value for settling on a Plains Horse Resource (+1 Hammer in the City Centre), while settling on the Fur wouldn't net you any additional contribution to the City Centre (but the counter-argument is that the Tundra Unforested Fur is a weak square to work anyway, so you won't miss much by settling on it).

At least your capital (once Civil Service is learned) will provide Fresh Water access to its Corn, while its Corn will provide Fresh Water access to its Rice. I seem to remember hearing that land-based Food Resources won't spawn next to each other like that, so maybe you're using a weird type of map script that breaks what I thought was a rule.

Spoiler for Grammar :

s.bernbaum · May 29, 2011

And it is not my gender of fun activity.

Someone else already commented that "gender" is used to distinguish male and female and that you mean "type". What he did not add is that the similar sounding word you wanted, which means "type", is "genre".

vranasm · May 29, 2011

I agree with dhoom about the northern horse city, should be 1 NE. There could be then another directly on fur for the fish

I am not sure that I agree with position of Memphis, would liked there more flood plains in BFC, but this way you got there ivory for production.

The decision to go for mids without stone is crap imo ;-). You can maybe pull it off depending how quickly GW goes.

Doesn't seem like you have warrior frontline... without save tough to see more... there could be some good spots in the south. The west is unscouted...

yatta77 · May 29, 2011

@Dhoomstriker

I seem to remember hearing that land-based Food Resources won't spawn next to each other like that, so maybe you're using a weird type of map script that breaks what I thought was a rule.

I've seen two different in the same Capital many times, next to each other I sincerely don't remember. I can assure this is a BtS 3.19 Standard Random Generated Fractal Map, which I did Not Open in the World Builder and I did Not Re-Roll (I mean it is just the First Random Generated Map). Actually I didn't even know about this apparently (from what you say) uncommon resource position before settling the City (since the Rice was in the Fog).

Can you please provide a link or confirm somehow about this being weird?

There might be other exception cases. For example, the Apostolic Palace may induce you to declare war. It is probably good for you to decide now whether you will:
a) be allowed to vote "yes" for such a war, or any other voting option that you wish to choose at the time
b) possibly even be allowed to propose a resolution to start a war against another player via the Apostolic Palace
c) be forced to always defy OR vote "no" for such a war
d) be forced to always defy such a vote

(c) is quite correct, just include Abstain. Voting either Abstain, No or Defy! I'm not the one who is declaring.

On the City placement Topic, I'll answer you better later today, because the City Placement it is a thing I already planned to study on my Screen Shots before the next session. Consider that cowcorn was the first sign I putted on the map. I have reasons to place a City there, but I also have reasons to place it on the Coast.
The FurFish spot: I noticed it as well, but I need to make sure to don't irritate Mansa too much (so I don't have the need to build an army, at least for now).
I'll give you my (probably silly) explanation for the final choice, promise.

by the way, thanks for this, one of the trashiest but most hilarious things on this forum IMO.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=10332124&postcount=29

@vranasm
As for Dhoomstriker above, I'll answer your comment later.
Thanks for the FeedBack

@XRW175P6MQ4

Are you allowed to do things that will obviously make an ai mad and therefore more likely to declare war on you? Such as settling in their face, trading with enemies, running a different religion etc.

Yeah. That's Diplomacy

But I don't think I'll do that this game.
I'll probably target average relations with everybody, letting the AIs hate each-other, in the first part of the game; then pick up Defensive Pacts with the strongest side later. But this is just a distract guess. I still don't even know who the other buddies are here, except for Mansa Musa.

@Zx Zero Zx

What not declaring war? That takes all the fun out of the game!

Partially True. The "action" fun is gone. But I've been playing that Deity Keshik rush attempt in the last days, so that's ok doing something a bit more quiet in this game.
Diplomacy betrays are fun also, Espionage somehow it is fun. And see the silly bonus hyper-enhanced AIs lose is priceless, no matter how.

@Habitus

I played a game for fun once where i wasn't allow to declare war but had to accept all the AI demands for war, due religious tensions it was probably the most blood thirsty game i've played

I believe it. When I started playing Civ II, I was a bit more than a kid, and I was actually feeling sorry for leaders asking for help in war, because I believed them saying things like "the nasty guy I'm in war with is the nasty one we nice guys should ally to destroy" so I joined all the wars. Then I understood it was what both sides were saying :lol:

@lymond

You have every right to post a series on this forum.

Thanks, appreciated

There are unwritten rules sometimes in forums that if you don't follow you might end up looking as flaming, trolling, or just being too arrogant. Which I actually am by the way (a bit too arrogant I mean, Not troll

).

---

Minimalist English Course, Chapter I

Spoiler :

I guess I answered everybody.
If I forgot something, please point it out.

---

Thanks all

Greetings,
yatta.

GGracchus · May 29, 2011

yatta77 said:
@Dhoomstriker
Ok. Clear. I knew that infinitive in English needs to. But I often find exceptions in sentences.
why not: "Go To practice" ?

the pencil is On the desk

the cat is Under the table

Stand up Beside the fireplace
Take that look From Off your face

By the way: achieve something from a difficult situation is pull Off, pull Out, or they both exists?

An infinitive is a verb with to(usually) in front of it, although other words can be in front of them. They function as nouns. Therefore, in "I like to play", the verb is like, and the direct object is "to play", because it is basically a noun. As for go practice, I'm no english expert, but I think that practice in this case is a noun. Go to practice does work, but I would put a noun after it(Go to practice outside), to demonstrate where, with the understood you as the subject.

For the sentences with the capitalized words, most don't need emphasis. If you really do want empahsis, capitalize the entire word.

Use exist, not exists. Exists is only for 3rd person singular positive. I exist, you exist, and Chuck Norris exists. However, some say Chuck Norris dosen't exist.

Achieve means to get something, pull off/out means to run. They're different and both exist.

EDIT: Crap, exist is a hard word to type. Misspelled a couple of times.

barbertje · May 29, 2011

The pyramids without stone or industrious takes very long. Normally I would never build this unless with an isolated start, when delaying expansion doesn't hurt too much. Is Mansa
on another island?
I would produce at least one more worker before the pyramids. You really need to improve that cow, chop some forests in both cities, and have some riverside grasslands farmed, once the pyramids are done to quickly grow the population, so you can build a libray, run 2 scientists
and keep working all the good tiles.

Before the horses appeared, I would put your cow/corn city on the horses, and another city 2 east one south of the corn, to be able to work all the grassland hills in that corner of the map.
With the horses, I would put one city on the fur, and one city 1 west of the corn.

I would put the next city on the coast, to be able to produce a workboat to find out where Mansa is, establish trade, and see if you can reach anyone else.

If there's only one food resource in the capital, and no other tiles that produce at least 3 food,
the map generator will add one extra food source, that can be next to and existing food resource.
It shouldn't happen anywhere else.

Immortal Minimalism, Chapter I - Hatshepsut

Emperor

Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!)

Prince

Barbarian

Emperor

Emperor

Emperor

Deity

Emperor

King

Girlie Builder

Girlie Builder

Emperor

Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!)

Girlie Builder

Mostly lurking

Deity

Emperor

Tribune of Rome

Prince

Similar threads