News: TSG13 Announcement

Welcome to the thirteenth game in the GOTM V Training Series! There are plenty of new features in Civilization 5 to explore and the Training Series games will allow new and old GOTM fans to try out these new features in a friendly environment. You are all encouraged to post your questions, stories, advice, tricks and failures in the dedicated game threads described below. You can read more about the GOTM and Training Series concept in this thread. Before going into the details of this game, we would like to ask you to abide to our most sacred rule: don’t replay any turns. If you make a mistake, accept it and try to recover. It’s better to do the bad moves in the Training Series instead of in the actual GOTM competition, once it starts.

In this game, the designated VC is Science. You may win by any VC you wish, as all VC's are enabled, but the results will be posted with fastest finish by Science victory and then all other VC listed below by fastest time. Good Luck!

In this game you will play as Ramkhamhaeng and lead the Siam civilization to victory. It’s a standard sized fractal map played at Emperor difficulty and at standard pace. Science victory is the designated VC for this game, all victory conditions are enabled.

A note for Mac players. Your patch version 1.0.1.275a has arrived and we think that you are now compatible with the windows version. Welcome back to the GoTM and good luck in your game.

Please note that you are only allowed to build Oxford University one time.

Civ V - TSG13 game settings
Playable Civ: Ramkhamhaeng - Siam
Number of AI Opponents: 7
Number of City-States: 16
Map type: Fractal
Map Size: Standard
Difficulty Level: Emperor
Temperature: Temperate
Game pace: Standard
Game options: Quick Combat is disabled (You can enable it by following instructions in this link.) Promotion saving is enabled. Policy saving is disabled.

Playing as Ramkhamhaeng, you possess Father Governs Children. You receive +50% increase in food and culture from friendly City-States.
You can train Naresuan's Elephant, which replaces the Knight. The unit is a powerful medieval mounted unit that provides a bonus against other mounted units and a higher combat strength than the Knight which it replaces. It requires Chivalry to build.
You can also build the Wat which replaces the University. The Wat increases the culture of a city, speeding the growth of its borders and the civilizations acquisition of Social Policies while also providing a science bonus to the city in which it is built. The Wat requires Education to build.
edit - Please see post 11 in this thread for further clarification of the Wat.



Information about threads associated with TSG
TSG Announcement thread (this one). This thread is used to announce the game and clarify the settings and rules (don’t be afraid to ask questions). It’s also used to discuss the game before you start, and post problems with opening the save. Please don’t post any information from a game you have started. Instead use the next thread.

Game In Progress thread. This thread is used to discuss the game once it's on the way. There are no reading or posting restrictions as such (apart from normal decency), although we encourage players to use the spoiler tags for screenshots. Here you can post questions related to the game and share your achievements/anger/frustration/victories while you play.

After Action Report thread. In this thread you can post the results of your game. Please state (preferably in the post title) your victory date and score, as recorded in the Hall of Fame, and the most important: your path to glory! , We will create a separate thread with the results at the end of the two week period (sorted by date and score). Players are encouraged to provide feedback on the game. Some players like to replay the game, and although we will not record the results from a replay, you can still post your new experiences. The game will not be closed as such, but after two weeks, the results will be compiled, and will not necessarily be updated with reports coming in after the finish date.

File Upload System
We now have a game file upload system you can find here. Please use it to upload your completed first attempt by saving the game on the turn after your victory or defeat. (by using the "lemme play one more turn" feature)

This game runs for two weeks and ends Monday, 13 June 2011.

The Save can be found here.

And of course, the first question is: "Where to settle?"

DaveMcW would move and settle on top of the gems, I'm sure, though that does negate a Windmill. Moving the Warrior NE then W should be our first move, to see what's on the other side of that hill. Unless I see something amazing over there, I'll most likely move NW and settle there. That way I don't have to sail my work boat all the way around to hook up the Pearls.

Neuro said:

And of course, the first question is: "Where to settle?"

DaveMcW would move and settle on top of the gems, I'm sure, though that does negate a Windmill. Moving the Warrior NE then W should be our first move, to see what's on the other side of that hill. Unless I see something amazing over there, I'll most likely move NW and settle there. That way I don't have to sail my work boat all the way around to hook up the Pearls.

Click to expand...

I was just thinking the same thing.

Leif, why have all the recent maps been fractal? Sure it's a good mix of resources around each starting area, but that just means it's more likely that we only have 1 or 2 copies of any single resource and the other civs likely have them as well. This makes it a lot harder to trade resources.

Also, did you edit this one with the world builder? If so, we probably don't have ruins again, since the world builder tends to delete the randomly generated ruins if you make any changes.

fractal produces fairly random maps. You never know if it's a pangea or continents map, so I think that's a good thing for this type of competition. No preconditions.

The only real question is will a Legalism abuse game beat a non-Legalism abuse game.

If I use Continents or Pangea, you have a good idea what the map looks like before you start. Using fractal masks the map type and requires that you scout to determine what is going on with the map.

This save has ruins, tested to be sure.

MadDjinn said:

The only real question is will a Legalism abuse game beat a non-Legalism abuse game.

Click to expand...

Insta-wats are certainly very appealing...i thing i will settle NW. Why you don't play with us MadDjinn? It's nice to see your commentaries but you should play some games, show your tricks and compare!

Tabarnak said:

Insta-wats are certainly very appealing...i thing i will settle NE.

Click to expand...

On the cow?

edit - I really thought that is what you meant.
Good Luck.

leif erikson said:

If I use Continents or Pangea, you have a good idea what the map looks like before you start. Using fractal masks the map type and requires that you scout to determine what is going on with the map.

This save has ruins, tested to be sure.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the quick response. That makes sense and thanks for testing that the ruins are there. Now, if only they'd add a Fractal Plus that puts the CS's off on the islands like the Continents Plus and Pangaea Plus do.

leif erikson said:

On the Cow?

Click to expand...

Edited

Monthar said:

Thanks for the quick response. That makes sense and thanks for testing that the ruins are there. Now, if only they'd add a Fractal Plus that puts the CS's off on the islands like the Continents Plus and Pangaea Plus do.

Click to expand...

You're welcome.

I have wished many time to be able to do such things. Working with Civ5's worldbuilder has not been easy. To fulfill a preconceived concept is quite difficult and very time consuming, and can have unintended consequences, as we have seen.

Per the Civ 5 wiki:
The Wat is the Siamese unique building. It replaces the University. Compared to the University, it has no prerequisite buildings, has an additional Scientist slot and it provides +3 Culture, but is does not provide extra Science for worked Jungle tiles.

Edit: The in-game Civilopedia only lists 2 Scientist slots, which is the same as the University. However the maintenance is listed as 2gpt while it is 3gpt for the University.

I quote this since the Announcement needed a little clarification:

leif erikson said:

You can also build the Wat which replaces the University. The Wat increases the culture of a city, speeding the growth of its borders and the civilizations acquisition of Social Policies while also providing a science bonus to the city in which it is built. The Wat requires Education to build.

Click to expand...

I'm not sure settling on the gems is the best move. Losing all the first-ring cows offsets some of the benefits.

Moving the settler 1NW is pretty obvious though. I think I will send the warrior 2E to confirm I don't lose anything doing that.

DaveMcW said:

I'm not sure settling on the gems is the best move. Losing all the first-ring cows offsets some of the benefits.

Click to expand...

Under what circumstances would it be a great move?

In most cases, I wouldn't think that having the luxury a little earlier would offset losing a 3p/3g tile for the game? Also, improving that tile only requires Mining.

I guess I forgot to ask the obvious question. In Civ4, no matter where you settled, your city always had the same resources, even if settled on a special tile (except for hills which gave you +1 hammers). Is this still the case in Civ 5? Or does a city settled on a Luxury get some special treatment?

Muaziz said:

Under what circumstances would it be a great move?

In most cases, I wouldn't think that having the luxury a little earlier would offset losing a 3p/3g tile for the game? Also, improving that tile only requires Mining.

I guess I forgot to ask the obvious question. In Civ4, no matter where you settled, your city always had the same resources, even if settled on a special tile (except for hills which gave you +1 hammers). Is this still the case in Civ 5? Or does a city settled on a Luxury get some special treatment?

Click to expand...

If the underlying plot would give you more than the base 1p/0g, you get that instead. Sadly, it doesn't work for food. So settling on those gems would give your base city 2f/2p/2g. The only time I ever settle on a resource is if it's Marble, because the +20% wonder production can be worth at times.

Neuro said:

(...) Moving the Warrior NE then W should be our first move, to see what's on the other side of that hill. Unless I see something amazing over there, I'll most likely move NW and settle there. That way I don't have to sail my work boat all the way around to hook up the Pearls.

Click to expand...

I think I'll move the Warrior sw,nw instead, to see if there is more seafood south, and land west of the mountain (or perhaps the Rock of Gibraltar, you never know). Depending on what I find, I might settle on the cattle east of the mountain. Otherwise, probably in place, so I can have trading posts on all that grassland. No need to fertilize, playing Siam.

Muaziz said:

Per the Civ 5 wiki:
The Wat is the Siamese unique building. It replaces the University. Compared to the University, it has no prerequisite buildings, has an additional Scientist slot and it provides +3 Culture, but is does not provide extra Science for worked Jungle tiles.

Edit: The in-game Civilopedia only lists 2 Scientist slots, which is the same as the University. However the maintenance is listed as 2gpt while it is 3gpt for the University.

I quote this since the Announcement needed a little clarification:

Click to expand...

Announcement has been edited with a link to this info.

Prepared the announcement with text from the civlopedia.

So, what does the legalism abuse and insta-wats referred to above entail?

Muaziz said:

Under what circumstances would it be a great move?

In most cases, I wouldn't think that having the luxury a little earlier would offset losing a 3p/3g tile for the game? Also, improving that tile only requires Mining.

Click to expand...

You get +2 food and -1 hammer. Compared to +1 hammer from settling on grassland. So it's pretty much break-even.

It would be a good move in a food-poor location, or if you could get fast access to gems without giving up anything.

Osner said:

So, what does the legalism abuse and insta-wats referred to above entail?

Click to expand...

http://www.google.com/search?nfpr=1&q=wat+is+legalism+abuse

DaveMcW said:

http://www.google.com/search?nfpr=1&q=wat+is+legalism+abuse

Click to expand...

lol... 1 million results on that search

To simplify:

Martin did the math and posted it here:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=416112&page=1

I also did a video LP showing it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glTFX1jQNrs

I took longer to get to the free wats than I should have, but that was partly due to being on an Archi. map, rather than continents or pangea.

MadDjinn said:

Martin did the math and posted it here:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=416112&page=1

I also did a video LP showing it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glTFX1jQNrs

Click to expand...

Note: I edited the link to Martin's post to start at page 1. Read the "Legalism Abuse (Siam)" section.

In a nutshell, here is how it works...
Legalism (Tradition branch): Receive a free cultural building in your first four cities.

The trick is that Siam's special building (the Wat which replaces a University) is a culture building (giving +3c compared to a University which gives none).

So the idea behind this strategy is to build Monuments and Temples in all your cities (usually 3 or 4 if you can manage it) and learn Eduction (which unlocks the University/Wat) before you get Legalism. Then once you pick up the Legalism SP, presto... free Wats in all your cities.

Note that this strategy also requires managing your Workers, your culture, and your RAs very carefully. Martin's post linked above goes into a lot more detail.