Does Scholasticism affect City States?

I've noticed that in all the games I have used Scholasticism(pretty much every game ), when I get a tech lead, my allied City States also get a tech lead(compared to the other AIs)! Could it be that Scholasticism somehow has an effect on the CS's as well?

With that said, I usually play on Small maps cuz I experience so many slowdowns on bigger maps. I guess that somewhat limits the AI's tech progress. I have however finished one Standard map, and observed a similar effect on the City States in that game as well.

military CS always seems to be in tech lead against the AI maybe because they keep much less unit therfore less upgrading cost overall?

I'm pretty sure CSs know any tech that's already been discovered by a player. I usually keep an eye on the CSs to see if the AIs managed to get a military tech lead on me. When the CSs have infantry while I'm still at rifleman, I know it's time to wrap up my rush for the time being.

CS tech level does depend on major-civ tech level. So, if you are getting a substantial boost from scholasticism, in a roundabout way yes, it will help the city states tech faster as well.

Pac-Dragon said:

I'm pretty sure CSs know any tech that's already been discovered by a player. I usually keep an eye on the CSs to see if the AIs managed to get a military tech lead on me. When the CSs have infantry while I'm still at rifleman, I know it's time to wrap up my rush for the time being.

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I also believe this is correct. The CSs get all of the discovered techs from all civs.

Pac-Dragon said:

I'm pretty sure CSs know any tech that's already been discovered by a player. I usually keep an eye on the CSs to see if the AIs managed to get a military tech lead on me. When the CSs have infantry while I'm still at rifleman, I know it's time to wrap up my rush for the time being.

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Naw this can't be true, otherwise your allied CSs would put late game strategic resources like alluminium and uranium availible basically as soon as you tech it which isn't the case. I've had times where I had to wait 30-40 turns before a CS with a 4-uranium node would finally provide it to me (30-40 turns after I had discovered em myself)

Could also simply notice how a human player can outtech all AIs AND all CSs on very easy levels.

What Chazzycat said is likely much more accurate. In fact, every civ & cs have a reduction in beaker cost based on how many of the other AIs currently know a tech they don't (the exact formulae is in the number crunching thread I believe - it is also why scouting is so important at higher levels). I would just suspect it has a much bigger impact on CS teching than it does on civs.

But doesn't this reduction in beaker cost affect the AI as well?

Are there any numbers for how many beakers a CS can produce? Would be interesting to know. It would seem that, at least on small maps, city states research faster than the AI does - even on Immortal.

Help me out here, Deau I assume this usually won't happen if you get lots of CS allies on a Standard or bigger map?

Well, think of it this way...

You ally with a bunch of civs and have scholasticism. This beaker bonus increases the rate you discover techs. These techs become available to CSs:

Civsassin said:

The CSs get all of the discovered techs from all civs.

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So indirectly, yes, your allied CSs get the bonus of scholasticism.

Civsassin said:

I also believe this is correct. The CSs get all of the discovered techs from all civs.

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Can anyone confirm this?

Bungle said:

But doesn't this reduction in beaker cost affect the AI as well?

Are there any numbers for how many beakers a CS can produce? Would be interesting to know. It would seem that, at least on small maps, city states research faster than the AI does - even on Immortal.

Help me out here, Deau I assume this usually won't happen if you get lots of CS allies on a Standard or bigger map?

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Very simple way to tell how many beakers a CS produces. Play a game, ally a single CS. Get scholasticism. Mouseover your beakers, see how much is from allied CSs and multiply that number by 3.

That being said, beakers of CSs scales overtime just like beakers of AIs do so it's not an exact pointer but it gives a rough view as to how much a CS may provide at every point in time.

The reduction in beaker affects AIs as well. It is basically programmed in such a way that the most trailing civ tech wise, has a sightly improved chance to catch up. If every other civ in the game has a tech you don't have, you receive roughly a 23% increase into researching that tech.

Sadly enough though, while it's possible to tell exactly how much BPT a single CS produces, it is impossible to tell what is it's tech cost (like wether it's full price or half the price of AIs/humans etc). It is also impossible to tell which tech is being researched. Military techs may be somewhat tracked but this doesn't relate in everything. Granted CSs can't do research agreements, they definitely have a buff somewhere that's allowing them to keep up. I don't remember seeing anything regarding CSs specifically in the gameplay.xml files. Vexing could probably come with some interesting stuff he's a beast at exploring hidden numbers either through massive world builder plays or digging further into game files.

Civsassin said:

I also believe this is correct. The CSs get all of the discovered techs from all civs.

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I would also expect that CSs get any tech which every civ on the map has discovered. That being said, it should then feel as though the CSs lose a huge tech buff anytime a civ becomes super crippled (like one awful city) or completely wiped and it doesn't seem to be the case...

Deau said:

Naw this can't be true, otherwise your allied CSs would put late game strategic resources like alluminium and uranium availible basically as soon as you tech it which isn't the case. I've had times where I had to wait 30-40 turns before a CS with a 4-uranium node would finally provide it to me (30-40 turns after I had discovered em myself)

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But is it because the CS doesn't have the tech or that they just don't have that resource hooked up yet?

If the City State AI spends that many turns figuring out how to hook up a resource, it is more ******** than I thought

CSs can definitely take a loooooong time to hook up resources, although I think they addressed the problem somewhat in the most recent patch. It's really frustrating to see a chunk of iron in their borders with no worker in sight.

CSs take long to hook up resources in the early game because they keep getting their workers stolen. This doesn't happen anymore in the late game. In my cases or examples, I was talking about uranium and alluminium. At this point of the game they have workers idle in a land covered by units everywhere and they still don't work the resource. Thus it means they don't have the tech while I do.

In other words, CSs don't get every single tech that "at least one civ" has. Maybe they get free techs that every civ has but again, my previous comment gives a solid incentive to believe it is not the case...

In civ4 the barbarians researched known techs at something like +1% per civ per turn. Maybe city states are similar.

Deau said:

CSs take long to hook up resources in the early game because they keep getting their workers stolen.

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Except that's not true; the CS AI is apparently just stupid (or there is some sort of hiccup in its programming): Sometimes a CS which has no attackers (neither AIs nor barbs) will just sit around without building any worker for no good reason at all. And other times, a CS will have a worker just standing around for a hundred or so turns before they move the worker over to improve a resource.

EndoConvert said:

Except that's not true; the CS AI is apparently just stupid (or there is some sort of hiccup in its programming): Sometimes a CS which has no attackers (neither AIs nor barbs) will just sit around without building any worker for no good reason at all. And other times, a CS will have a worker just standing around for a hundred or so turns before they move the worker over to improve a resource.

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Last patch addressed this and as far as I can see, the problem has been solved.

the early AI still appears to improve any tile that can be "farmed" or have a food increase before lururies as well -_-

CSs gain techs after a number of civs have it. Whether that's by 'teching' at a severely reduced rate (special rate just for CSs) or not, they definitely can't get the tech right after the first player/AI gets there. This would effectively show that your 'ally' doesn't get your techs. (shown by later game resources taking a long time before the CS gets around to working it)

On the flip side of that, I've seen CSs insta upgrade units after only 1-2 player/AI get the tech.
(A CS ally was using rifles only a few turns after I got there via RAs)