Mod/AI Fixes in the future?
- Thread starter Tabarnak
- Start date
If possible to make a mod this could be an approximate solution to current HoF rules:
Make it impossible for the player to DoW any civilization to which it has an active "per turn" trade. (gpt, luxery etc.)
Also:
Make it so that barbarians dont pillage luxery or strat resource tiles. (This would solve abusing barbs to cancel deals).
Barbarians would still be annoying though as they pillage other stuff and stand on ur tiles.
Make it impossible for the player to DoW any civilization to which it has an active "per turn" trade. (gpt, luxery etc.)
Also:
Make it so that barbarians dont pillage luxery or strat resource tiles. (This would solve abusing barbs to cancel deals).
Barbarians would still be annoying though as they pillage other stuff and stand on ur tiles.
Im not a programmer so I dont really know if these are possible to implement. Still, here is another idea:
Make it so that when war is declared, active deals are not broken. (perhaps with exception of RAs)
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- Mar 26, 2007
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Well said Neuro and right to the point!
Precisely, fix the AIs so they don't make stupid deals that loses them great amounts of Wealth when a Civ declares War.
Placing restrictions on when War can be declared is nonsense. Very few civilizations in history did not declare War, because it was contrary to some arbitrary rule of conduct, especially "we can't declare War on our stupid neighbors", because they entrusted so much Wealth to us with no assurances that we would not renege. In deed, when has War not been the direct result of Greed in its many manifestations?
In my opinion, even Peace Treaties should be breakable before the term is up. It could have diplomatic costs associated with it or Happiness penalties, but War should always be an option, even if its suicidal.
First you win the War, then you declare it. (Paraphrased from "The Art of War".) There should be no rules against a DoW, once you have made the determination that you have already won the War. Perhaps remaining in a State of War until Capitulation or Defeat should be the price for gaining Wealth via a DoW.
Sorry, I'm being a bit off topic, but I promise not to continue doing so and thus divert this thread from its true purpose of HOF Banned Exploits clarifications.
Sun Tzu Wu
I agree, Neuro has a point. In civ 4 you could NEVER trade luxury or "per turn" for lump sum if I remember correctly so that is one way to fix it.
However, the idea to fix this exploit is not to make the game more historically accurate in my opinion. It is to avoid promoting a stragey that is arguably boring and overpowered (stealing AI gold) from being the ONLY alternative for optimal play.
If this is the scope of the fix, I still believe that my suggestions would make a good crude fix in accordance to the current "rule system"/set of guidelines for what is considered an exploit. (if they are easy to implement in a mod)
Then later there could be room to make an even better fix that gives the player more room to maneuver.
If Player DoW on AI was made impossible as long as there was an active per turn deal with that particular AI this would not really hamper any gameplay strategy currently not considered an abuse.
Like you say yourself, you plan your war ahead of time. There shouldnt be to much trouble to not engage a deal where you sell something "per turn" to your intended WAR TARGET.
U guys should just stop acting like DOW got no negative consequnces - IT GOT!
espacially with this very popular denounce chains since some patch - DOW espacially to more then 1 civ will usually lead to bigbig hate from all others making RAs impossible or at least very risky to sign, decreasing the terms of trade horribly (like 100 gold instead of 300 for a lux) and so on and so on.
It IS a choise to gain 300 gold once and nothing after for breaking a deal or getting 300 gold regularly later on. Choises are GOOD. Also breaking deals have been in both real world and former civs. Breaking a deal is a normal part of diplomacy not a "exploit"
There is just no need for any mod or rule or whatever regarding trading and dow, it can be useful in special situations - so what? lot of things differing from "normal" gameplay can be useful in special situations. In fact all any rules or mods d do is limiting player options - and limiting is just not good
espacially with this very popular denounce chains since some patch - DOW espacially to more then 1 civ will usually lead to bigbig hate from all others making RAs impossible or at least very risky to sign, decreasing the terms of trade horribly (like 100 gold instead of 300 for a lux) and so on and so on.
It IS a choise to gain 300 gold once and nothing after for breaking a deal or getting 300 gold regularly later on. Choises are GOOD. Also breaking deals have been in both real world and former civs. Breaking a deal is a normal part of diplomacy not a "exploit"
There is just no need for any mod or rule or whatever regarding trading and dow, it can be useful in special situations - so what? lot of things differing from "normal" gameplay can be useful in special situations. In fact all any rules or mods d do is limiting player options - and limiting is just not good
I only noticed bigbig hate when I start conquering cities and then only half of the other AI's who are friendly with that civ.
tommynt, seems, you haven't played enough to understand the issue. For example, you can easily have 100+ gpt in the midgame after researching economics. If you play on Immortal+, most AIs have 2000, 4000 and even 10000+ gold. You can trade your, for example, 150 gpt + all luxuries for 4000-5000 gold with every civ, declaring war after the trade. It's not difficult to understand, that even after this one-turn trades you get so much gold, that all futher possible diplomatic penalties will be negligible.
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