New terrain features

Hydromancerx said:

Ok switching gears. I have a quest for a series of new Terrain Features.

Tar Pit
Graphic: Oil Resource
Terrain: Any Land (except Peaks and Hills)
Map Gen: Rare
Bonuses: +1
Movement: Impassable

Volcano
Graphic: Here or Here
Terrain: Peaks Only
Map Gen: Rare
Bonuses: +1
Events: Make the Volcano event trigger on this instead.
Movement: Impassable

Geyser
Graphic: ?
Terrain: Any Land (except Peaks and Hills)
Map Gen: Rare
Bonuses: ?
Movement: ?

Mesa
Graphic: ?
Terrain: Desert Only
Map Gen: Rare
Bonuses: ?
Movement: ?

Crater
Graphic: ?
Terrain: Any Land (except Peaks and Hills)
Map Gen: Rare
Bonuses: ?
Movement: ?

Please post ideas or suggestions for these. Especially the ones missing graphics.

Click to expand...

I have started doing these (and more) but I need more information.

Volcanoes - active and dormant (need graphics). Active volcanoes are mined for sulphur and some rare elements can only be got from their gasses. This means that you need to be able to improve them and get to them. OR Sulphur extraction and rare element could be done via two buildings in a city with a volcano in their vicinity.

I think I have figured out how to tie active/dormant to events. However the more events we have the less likely each one.

Tar Pits - are also used for stuff. I suppose the same goes as for volcano.

Note: Yes this file is compatible with my extras and other experimental work. Experimental work will be merged into the appropriate place in the SVN when we have finished experimenting. All comments welcome, well constructive ones anyway.

File currently has new resource Mammoth and puts both Tar Pits and Volcanoes on the map (not perfect world). There are other features in the file but I don't have enough info to include them on a map.

Other features - bones(fossils?), crater, Frozen ship and rock arch.

Re-posting stuff from the other thread ...

Hydromancerx said:

Apparently the FfH Age of Ice mod that comes iwth civ4 has some features we should use ...

- Crater (Not too pretty but its the only crate i have found)

- Rock Arch (This looks cool I like the one where you can actually see the hole in the center.)

- Frozen Ship (This looks like it would be fun to discover ships frozen in sea ice later in the game)

- Volcano (not as pretty as the other but it is a terrain feature already).

Also they have some other stuff that looked interesting such as ...

- Traps (might be cool to allow traps as either an improvement to catch food or traps in a defensive improvement).

- Bones (might be interesting to have it was greatly reduced in size as a scavenging resource or something. Or even a fossil site.)

In short could you guys and some of these terrain features like the crater or Rock Arch to the game? Thanks!

----------

On side not I found these the other day. They look like they would be fun to add.

Naval Mine

In fact it would be nice to add other things like landmines or other traps. Then have mine detecting units and mine defusing units.

Click to expand...

Hydromancerx said:

Here is a screenshot (see attachment) of the FfH Age of Ice terrain features I was talking about. If the other volcano doesn't work then at least we have this one as a back up.

The Crater and the Stone Arch would be terrain features while the Frozen Ship would need to be a resource or something since it needs to be revealed later in the game.

Click to expand...

Hydromancerx said:

@Dancing Hoskuld

I noticed that the ivory resource in FfH Age of Ice has a mammoth instead on an elephant (see attachment). Could you add that as a new resource? Then The Mammoth buildings would not have to piggy back on ivory resource. Note its range would be similar to fur or seals. Also you could have the mammoth herd provide mammoth resource instead of ivory!

Click to expand...

Naval and Land mines are a big problem for the AI. We would need to recycle all the AI stuff Orion Veteran did in his warfare mods.

Hydro: I need you to build some buildings that require Volcano in their vicinity.

Name:Sulphur Extraction
Available:Gunpowder

I will then change the python so that it provides sulphur.

Name: ??? Gas Mine (gah! I have forgotten the name of the element!)
Available: Transhuman era tech

Dancing Hoskuld said:

File currently has new resource Mammoth and puts both Tar Pits and Volcanoes on the map (not perfect world). There are other features in the file but I don't have enough info to include them on a map.

Other features - bones(fossils?), crater, Frozen ship and rock arch.

Click to expand...

According to the FfH Age of Ice civlopedia the stats were ...

Rock Arch
Movement Cost: 2
- Cannot Build Cities Here
- Cannot Build Any Improvements on this Terrain

Notes: I would say it sounds about right however it would be nice to have a new improvement called "Landmark" or something that you could set on terrain features like this when you discover Tourism. That way they could give you some culture, money and science. As for the Mountaineering aspect I don't think you should be allowed to make a city on it but maybe a road to connect it up at least.

Crater
- Impassable
- Cannot Build Cities Here
- Cannot Build Any Improvements on this Terrain

Notes: Same as above.

Bones
- Impassable
- Cannot Build Cities Here
- Cannot Build Any Improvements on this Terrain

Notes: Similar to above except I would shrink its size down to half. I would also change its name to "Fossils" and then have the improvement be a "Dig Site" which would be unlocked at Paleontology tech. I would of course change my fossil buildings to require this instead. Note this should probbly be a resource and not a terrain feature.

Frozen Ship
Movement Cost: 2
- Cannot Build Cities Here
- Cannot Build Any Improvements on this Terrain

Notes: Similar to the Arch. Not sure what you wan to do with this since it probably should match up with your sunken ship.

Graphics

There are button/icons for all of these (volcano, bones, frozen ship, crater, rock arch) in the FfH Age of Ice mod. Can you get to them or do you need me to make new ones for them?

Dancing Hoskuld said:

Naval and Land mines are a big problem for the AI. We would need to recycle all the AI stuff Orion Veteran did in his warfare mods.

Hydro: I need you to build some buildings that require Volcano in their vicinity.

Name:Sulphur Extraction
Available:Gunpowder

I will then change the python so that it provides sulphur.

Name: ??? Gas Mine (gah! I have forgotten the name of the element!)
Available: Transhuman era tech

Click to expand...

Sure i can do that. I would suspect that tar pits could provide fossils and/or asphalt via city vicinity buildings.

I could also see volcanoes providing obsidian too since obsidian is volcanic glass.

Lots of potential for city vicinity buildings.

*Throws a virgin maiden in the volcano to appease the civ gods*

Hydromancerx said:

According to the FfH Age of Ice civlopedia the stats were ...

Rock Arch
Movement Cost: 2
- Cannot Build Cities Here
- Cannot Build Any Improvements on this Terrain

Notes: I would say it sounds about right however it would be nice to have a new improvement called "Landmark" or something that you could set on terrain features like this when you discover Tourism. That way they could give you some culture, money and science. As for the Mountaineering aspect I don't think you should be allowed to make a city on it but maybe a road to connect it up at least.

Crater
- Impassable
- Cannot Build Cities Here
- Cannot Build Any Improvements on this Terrain

Notes: Same as above.

Bones
- Impassable
- Cannot Build Cities Here
- Cannot Build Any Improvements on this Terrain

Notes: Similar to above except I would shrink its size down to half. I would also change its name to "Fossils" and then have the improvement be a "Dig Site" which would be unlocked at Paleontology tech. I would of course change my fossil buildings to require this instead. Note this should probbly be a resource and not a terrain feature.

Frozen Ship
Movement Cost: 2
- Cannot Build Cities Here
- Cannot Build Any Improvements on this Terrain

Notes: Similar to the Arch. Not sure what you wan to do with this since it probably should match up with your sunken ship.

Graphics

There are button/icons for all of these (volcano, bones, frozen ship, crater, rock arch) in the FfH Age of Ice mod. Can you get to them or do you need me to make new ones for them?

Click to expand...

Already have all that from the FfH Age of Ice mod. they are all in the file but don't appear on the maps yet because they have zero chance of occurring.

Fossils will have to be a resource not a terrain feature if you want it to become visible on a tech. It is possible to build improvements on features eg Forest/Nature Reserve.

Yes, I want to use the frozen ship as part of my ship wreck series. Which I need to find again.

Dancing Hoskuld said:

Note: Yes this file is compatible with my extras and other experimental work. Experimental work will be merged into the appropriate place in the SVN when we have finished experimenting. All comments welcome, well constructive ones anyway.

Click to expand...

1. The icon/buttons looks fine. In fact they look great in game.

2. How hard is it to added those features to C2C Perfect World map script?

3. Is it possible to reduce the size of the bones to half the size and re-name it "Fossils" as well as change it to a resource instead of a terrain feature?

4. Have you found a graphic for your coral reef yet? I know you were talking about that before.

5. Can you add "Swamp" Terrain Feature to the to C2C Perfect World map script? It never seems to generate. There is the Marsh Terrain but not the "Swamp" Terrain Feature.

6. Furs resource need to be more, while the seals should be toned down a little.

You could take a look at Dune Wars as well. Lots of rock formation terrain features there.

Dancing Hoskuld said:

Name: ??? Gas Mine (gah! I have forgotten the name of the element!)

Click to expand...

Neon, Krypton, Xenon, Radon? Or Helium3?

Hankc said:

You could take a look at Dune Wars as well. Lots of rock formation terrain features there.

Click to expand...

He is right there is a ton of stuff we should loot from it.



Terrain
- Salt Flats
- Barren Peaks (3 Types)

I also it might be nice to have more than one type of desert terrain such as Sahara sand dunes vs more southwest desert or outback desert.

Terrain Features
- Polar Outcrops (6 types)
- Desert Outcrops (6 Types)
- Other Outcrops (6 Types)
- Caves

Flora
- Barrel Cactus
- Prickly Pear Cactus
- Date Palms
- Shaggy Palm
- Yucca Tree
- Scrubby Tree
- Small Shrub

The flora come a resources but I could see them easily converted into desert terrain features lie how trees are for other biomes.

In addition it would be nice to try to find a bamboo forest terrain feature.

In short this seems like a good mod to loot for terrain, features and resources to help make C2C more diverse. Because really biome diversity is kind of lacking in Civ4. Might be time to enhance it with new biomes.

Snofru1 said:

Neon, Krypton, Xenon, Radon? Or Helium3?

Click to expand...

Hydrogen sulfide?

I think it was either Rhodium or Rubidium, but it is way past my bed time to look it up.

Ok I made a cool chart on how the new Terrains could work. (See Attachment)

Ice
Food: 0
Production: 0
Commerce: 0
Movement: -4
Defense: 0%
River Commerce: 0%
Freshwater: No
Health: 0
Improvements: +75% Time to Build
Cities: Requires Coast or Freshwater
Terrain Damage: Yes

Permafrost
Food: 0
Production: 0
Commerce: 0
Movement: -3
Defense: 0%
River Commerce: +1
Freshwater: No
Health: 0
Improvements: +50% Time to Build
Cities: Requires Coast or Freshwater
Terrain Damage: Yes

Tundra
Food: 1
Production: 0
Commerce: 0
Movement: -2
Defense: 0%
River Commerce: +1
Freshwater: No
Health: 0
Improvements: +25% Time to Build
Cities: Normal
Terrain Damage: Yes

Barren
Food: 0
Production: 0
Commerce: 0
Movement: 0
Defense: 0%
River Commerce: +1
Freshwater: No
Health: 0
Improvements: +25% Time to Build
Cities: Normal
Terrain Damage: No

Rocky
Food: 0
Production: 1
Commerce: 0
Movement: -2
Defense: +25%
River Commerce: +1
Freshwater: No
Health: 0%
Improvements: +25% to Build
Cities: Nomal
Terrain Damage: No

Scrub
Food: 1
Production: 0
Commerce: 0
Movement: -2
Defense: 0%
River Commerce: +1
Freshwater: No
Health: 0
Improvements: Normal
Cities: Normal
Terrain Damage: No

Desert
Food: 0
Production: 0
Commerce: 0
Movement: -3
Defense: -25%
River Commerce: +1
Freshwater: No
Health: 0
Improvements: +25% to Build
Cities: Requires Coast or Freshwater
Terrain Damage: Yes

Dunes
Food: 0
Production: 0
Commerce: 0
Movement: -4
Defense: 0%
River Commerce: +1
Freshwater: No
Health: 0
Improvements: +50% to Build
Cities: Requires Coast or Freshwater
Terrain Damage: Yes

Salt Flats
Food: 0
Production: 0
Commerce: 0
Movement: 0
Defense: 0%
River Commerce: 0
Freshwater: No
Health: -0.25%
Improvements: Cannot Build
Cities: Cannot Build
Terrain Damage: Yes

Plains
Food: 1
Production: 1
Commerce: 0
Movement: 0
Defense: 0%
River Commerce: +1
Freshwater: No
Health: 0
Improvements: Normal
Cities: Normal
Terrain Damage: No

Grassland
Food: 2
Production: 0
Commerce: 0
Movement: 0
Defense: 0%
River Commerce: +1
Freshwater: No
Health: 0
Improvements: Normal
Cities: Normal
Terrain Damage: No

Lush
Food: 3
Production: 0
Commerce: 0
Movement: 0
Defense: 0%
River Commerce: +1
Freshwater: No
Health: 0
Improvements: Normal
Cities: Normal
Terrain Damage: No

Muddy
Food: 1
Production: 1
Commerce: 0
Movement: -2
Defense: 0%
River Commerce: +1
Freshwater: No
Health: 0
Improvements: +25% Time to Build
Cities: Normal
Terrain Damage: No

Marsh
Food: 1
Production: 1
Commerce: 0
Movement: -3
Defense: 0%
River Commerce: +1
Freshwater: No
Health: 0
Improvements: +50% Time to Build
Cities: Requires Coast or Freshwater
Terrain Damage: No

Coast
Food: 2
Production: 0
Commerce: 1
Movement: 0
Defense: +10%
River Commerce: N/A
Freshwater: No
Health: 0
Improvements: Normal
Cities: Cannot Build
Terrain Damage: No

Sea
Food: 1
Production: 0
Commerce: 1
Movement: -1
Defense: 0%
River Commerce: N/A
Freshwater: No
Health: 0
Improvements: Normal
Cities: Cannot Build
Terrain Damage: No

Ocean
Food: 1
Production: 0
Commerce: 1
Movement: -2
Defense: 0%
River Commerce: N/A
Freshwater: No
Health: 0
Improvements: Normal
Cities: Cannot Build
Terrain Damage: No

So do you think these could work?

Also perhaps there should be 3 kind of coast; polar, temperate and tropical. That way different seaweed and coral can grow in specific zones and animals like the crocs cannot move into polar coast zones.

Hydromancerx said:

1. The icon/buttons looks fine. In fact they look great in game.

2. How hard is it to added those features to C2C Perfect World map script?

3. Is it possible to reduce the size of the bones to half the size and re-name it "Fossils" as well as change it to a resource instead of a terrain feature?

4. Have you found a graphic for your coral reef yet? I know you were talking about that before.

5. Can you add "Swamp" Terrain Feature to the to C2C Perfect World map script? It never seems to generate. There is the Marsh Terrain but not the "Swamp" Terrain Feature.

6. Furs resource need to be more, while the seals should be toned down a little.

Click to expand...

The more terrain/terrain features/resources there are the more likely they will not appear on smaller maps. So we may need to consider Map Size for some of our lines including buildings and units.

2. I don't really know the C2C Perfect World map script well. However if you can specify when things should occur I may be able to do it. EG "Swamp" occurs on 10% of marsh terrain that sort of thing.

3. Trivial - I need to change one number in the XML.

4. No.

6. Seals/walruses are placed after the map is generated. Also if you like I can change the python so that the Seal Hunter's camp also provides fur and the Walrus Hunter's camp provides ivory. If you do it in the XML for the building it can "crash" corporations.

Edit Have you seen the Terain mod? Luckily I downloaded it a long time ago as it i no longer available.

great ideas for terrains and terrains features, but in the salt flat yo yould add 1 gold for the fact that thers salt and placing only in the resource of salt
its only a suggestion

@Dancing Hoskuld

1. I realize this however I think the list I made could work. Unless somehow the maps is smaller than 17 tiles all the terrain types should fit even if they are only represented by 1 tile.

2. Ah ok. That actually sounds reasonable.

3. Ah cool. I am guessing its similar to how you changed the size of the Cow that time.

4. Ok I will try to find one for ya.

6. That sounds good and makes sense. Go for it.

7. No I have not seen it before. However working on the Sagan 4 project I am very familiar with biomes. The main problem is civ4 doesn't follow biomes as well in that you can put trees on grasslands and such. Thus I had to try to adapt a new way using the terrains we have plus ones I found in the Dune Wars mod and FfH Age of Ice mod.

Ice = Snow (C2C)
Permafrost = Polar (Dune Wars)
Tundra = Tundra (C2C)
Barren = Tundra (FfH Age of Ice)
Rocky = Rugged (Dune Wars)
Scrub = Rock (Dune Wars)
Desert = Graben (Dune Wars)
Dunes = Desert (C2C)
Salt Flats = Salt (Dune Wars)
Plains = Plains (C2C)
Grassland = Grassland (C2C)
Lush = Grassland (Dune Wars)
Muddy = Anchor Grass (Dune Wars)
Marsh = Marsh (C2C)
Coast = Coast (C2C)
Sea = Ocean (C2C)
Ocean = Ocean (Photoshoped since I had no idea what your deeper ocean would look like.)

angelitocarc said:

great ideas for terrains and terrains features, but in the salt flat yo yould add 1 gold for the fact that thers salt and placing only in the resource of salt
its only a suggestion

Click to expand...

I don't see why salt flats could not still exist without the salt resource, but i do think that salt resource should only appear on salt flats.

Ah but if we also use the Terrain Mod we also have tagia where mammoths live and the Australian biomes which you are ignoring completely.

However adding any new terrain, as opposed to terrain feature, will require modding all the map scripts.

As you can see in the attached image I have shrunk the bones/fossil terrain feature. Currently you can't build anything on this feature. Also resources can appear where terrain features are giving a conflict since putting some improvements on a plot will remove the terrain feature.

I have not yet added this to the file in the first post.

Hydromancerx said:

I don't see why salt flats could not still exist without the salt resource, but i do think that salt resource should only appear on salt flats.

Click to expand...

There is halite. It was a valuable source of salt in some inland regions.
I think salt should be placed on some (not that fertile land) hills also, and some coast regions.

Hydromancerx said:

@Dancing Hoskuld

I don't see why salt flats could not still exist without the salt resource, but i do think that salt resource should only appear on salt flats.

Click to expand...

thats what i was traing to say but when there isnt a salt resource in salt falts there should be a 1 like representing thats thers salt there, its only an idea
and it can have a city vicinity building too but im going too far
sorry for my badd english