Happiness, Global vs Local

WeaselSlapper · Aug 10, 2011

This post has been updated to reflect the changes in the 8/11/11 patch

I know what you're going to say, in Civ V all happiness is global. While this was true on first release, with one of the patches they added that happiness generated from buildings can only combat happiness from population in that city, essentially making two different sources for unhappiness.The first is from cities (I call this global) and the second if from population (I call this local).

Here are the numbers are for all civs except India who has double from cities and 1/2 from population.

Each city generates 3 :c5unhappy:

Each population generate 1 :c5unhappy:

Population in an occupied city generates double :c5unhappy:

from population (unless they changed this and I didn't realize, if this is wrong someone please correct me).
So planting a new city without any adding any additional happiness will cost 4 :c5unhappy:

WeaselSlapper · Aug 10, 2011

Here's how you combat global unhappiness (I'm no looking at the Civilopedia so please correct me if I have anything wrong) :

Global (all global happiness can also be used to combat the total of local unhappiness)
Starting Happiness 9 :c5happy:

on Diety, 15 :c5happy:

on settler
Luxuries 4 :c5happy:

each
Natural Wonders 1 :c5happy:

each
Wonders

Circus Maximus (National Wonder) 5
Effiel Tower 5 and 1 for every 2 Social Policies
Noter Dame 10
Forbidden Palace -10% for # of citizens in non-occupied cities
Taj Mahal 4 (in the patch notes for 8/11/11)

Social Policies

Tradition - Aristocracy - 1 for every 10 Citizens in a City. (changed with the 8/11/11 patch)
Tradition - Monarchy - -1 for every 2 Citizens in the Capital.
Liberty - Meritocracy - 1 for each City you own connected to the Capital and -5% from Citizens in non-occupied Cities.
Honor - Military Caste - 1 for each city with a garrison increases.
Patronage - Cultural Diplomacy - from gifted Luxuries increased by 50%.
Freedom - Democracy - Specialist Population in Cities produce half the normal amount of .
Commerce - Protectionism - 1 from each Luxury resource.
Order - Opener - 1 for each City

Building requiring policy

Walls - 1 - Honor - Professional Army
Castle - 1 - Honor - Professional Army
Arsenal - 1 - Honor - Professional Army
Military Base - 1 - Honor - Professional Army
Monument - 1 - Piety - Organized Religion
Temple - 1 - Piety - Organized Religion
Monastery - 1 - Piety - Organized Religion - Requires resource incense or wine
Courthouse - 3 - Autocracy - Police State - Can only be built in a captured city
University - 1 - Rationalism - Humanism
Observatory - 1 - Rationalism - Humanism
Public School - 1 - Rationalism - Humanism

WeaselSlapper · Aug 10, 2011

I'm not going to cover Unique buildings, I want to keep this more generic.

Buildings requiring only tech

Colosseum - 2
Courthouse - Removes extra unhappiness from occupied city (this also currently removes the 3 from the city, but I'm assuming that's a bug that will be fixed; new patch notes say "Multiple minor bug fixes." Can anyone confirm if this is one of them?) - Can only be built in a captured city
Theatre - 3
Stadium - 4 (I think, I will update when I can find out for sure)

Buildings requiring resource

Stone works - 1 - Requires Stone or Marble
Organized Religion
Circus - 2 - Requires horse or ivory

WeaselSlapper · Aug 10, 2011

To truly ICS you will need to counter all 3 :c5unhappy:

generated from each city, otherwise you will be limited by the wonders (natural and built) and luxuries.

The easiest way to be able to ICS (with everyone except India) is to take any three of these 4 options ranked in order from my favorite to least favorite:

Liberty - Meritocracy - 1 for each City you own connected to the Capital and -5% from Citizens in non-occupied Cities.
Freedom - Democracy - Specialist Population in Cities produce half the normal amount of . You have to run at least 2 specialists in every city. If you're able to run 4 specialists in each city you only need to pick one other option listed
Build the Forbidden Palace -1/3 for # of cities
Honor - Military Caste - 1 for each city with a garrison increases.

With just three of these 4 choices (and the requirements to get full happiness from each choice) and enough happiness buildings in the city to generate 1 :c5happy:

for each citizen each city (including population) will cost you 0 :c5happy:

and you'll still get 1 extra :c5happy:

for every 20 citizens in non-occupied cities (if you pick Meritocracy)

Lokos451 · Aug 11, 2011

You're missing quite a few social policies still. Honor has happy faces from Professional Army + walls, and Piety's Organized Religion grants +1 happy for each monument, temple, and monastery.

Quite a few later ones as well, but those I can actually quote properly.

WeaselSlapper · Aug 11, 2011

Lokos451 said:
You're missing quite a few social policies still. Honor has happy faces from Professional Army + walls, and Piety's Organized Religion grants +1 happy for each monument, temple, and monastery.

Quite a few later ones as well, but those I can actually quote properly.

Those will go under buildings that require social policies once I get around to making that section. I will probably get that done today.

civnoob13 · Aug 11, 2011

I really don't get how you're supposed to have a happy empire now without being forced to go down honour and barely expand at all (and be very lucky with luxuries).

Lokos451 · Aug 11, 2011

Well, check out this thread for that: but basically it's a mix of teching, exploring, and city placement.

In the opening game, make sure to settle your new cities with 2 luxury resources if at all possible. Settling directly on top of a resource can help a lot, as it won't need to be developed to be used/sold/traded. Getting your scouts out early makes a big difference for this!

Religion has a very strong source of happy faces for 2 sp choices, and if you are teching towards a national college opener, you'll get access quite early. Teching towards colisseums earlier than you are is another good option.

Also, placing your cities with access to stone/horses helps a lot too. Stoneworks and circuses are pretty strong early buildings for their costs, and if you're tight in the early game for happy faces 2-3 more per city will go a LONG way.

WeaselSlapper · Aug 11, 2011

civnoob13 said:
I really don't get how you're supposed to have a happy empire now without being forced to go down honour and barely expand at all (and be very lucky with luxuries).

I also finished off the rest of my post, so check out the first couple of posts and you will see there are a lot of buildings besides honor ones that are otherwise useless that can now provide :c5happy:

KrikkitTwo · Aug 12, 2011

A few Corrections

1. Forbidden Palace gives -10% population unhappiness

2. All the Buildings that need a Social policy to get their happiness are GLOBAL not Local

3. You are also missing the Order policy... +1

per city

WeaselSlapper · Aug 12, 2011

Krikkitone said:
A few Corrections

1. Forbidden Palace gives -10% population unhappiness

2. All the Buildings that need a Social policy to get their happiness are GLOBAL not Local

3. You are also missing the Order policy... +1 per city

Updated Forbidden Palace and order Policy. I don't see any reason why social policy buildings should be any different than regular buildings, because when they changed it they said happiness produced can only counter unhappiness by population.

WeaselSlapper · Aug 15, 2011

I did a little testing over the weekend and was able to confim that policy buildings are global not local. I've updated my initial posts to reflect that. I only confirmed for Humanism, but I'm assuming that will hold true for the others as well. Thanks for the input.

KrikkitTwo · Aug 15, 2011

WeaselSlapper said:
I did a little testing over the weekend and was able to confim that policy buildings are global not local. I've updated my initial posts to reflect that. I only confirmed for Humanism, but I'm assuming that will hold true for the others as well. Thanks for the input.

Yeah, it is unfortunately counter intuitive, and tends to make ICS too easy.

WeaselSlapper · Aug 15, 2011

Krikkitone said:
Yeah, it is unfortunately counter intuitive, and tends to make ICS too easy.

It's funny, with all the other patches they've completely nerfed ICS, with this patch they made it incredibly easy to ICS with minimal need for policies.

KiffeLesBiffles · Sep 21, 2011

WeaselSlapper said:
It's funny, with all the other patches they've completely nerfed ICS, with this patch they made it incredibly easy to ICS with minimal need for policies.

It would help me a lot if you can make a guide for ICS after the patch. I mean in term of social policies picking and city build order. I would like to test it in MP.

Thank you

MadDjinn · Sep 21, 2011

KiffeLesBiffles said:
It would help me a lot if you can make a guide for ICS after the patch. I mean in term of social policies picking and city build order. I would like to test it in MP.

Thank you

It's Liberty+Organized Religion. (finish Piety if you want, but it's not really needed)

Meritocracy+monument/temple = no happiness cost/city.

everything else (global wise) is just bonus.

KiffeLesBiffles · Sep 21, 2011

MadDjinn said:
It's Liberty+Organized Religion. (finish Piety if you want, but it's not really needed)

Meritocracy+monument/temple = no happiness cost/city.

everything else (global wise) is just bonus.

What about honor giving you 1

per city and +2 culture ? You have as many

as meitocracy but 2 cultures. And the next honor policy give you 1

with wall (wall cost 0 gold to keep)

I was thinking of doing that :

1 - Liberty opener
2 - Liberty settler
3 - Honor opener
4 - Honor adjacent unit bonus
5 - Honor Garnison hapiness and culture
6 - Honor military building hapiness
7 - Piety opener
8 - Piety hapinness with cultural building
9 - Liberty worker
10 - Liberty meritocracy

It is more hardcore ICS. I would call Liberty + piety soft ICS.
But I need to test it: I don't know if it is realistic especialy in MP (I am MP player).

MadDjinn · Sep 21, 2011

KiffeLesBiffles said:
What about honor giving you 1 per city and +2 culture ? You have as many as meitocracy but 2 cultures. And the next honor policy give you 1 with wall (wall cost 0 gold to keep)

I was thinking of doing that :

1 - Liberty opener
2 - Liberty settler
3 - Honor opener
4 - Honor adjacent unit bonus
5 - Honor Garnison hapiness and culture
6 - Honor military building hapiness
7 - Piety opener
8 - Piety hapinness with cultural building
9 - Liberty worker
10 - Liberty meritocracy

It is more hardcore ICS. I would call Liberty + piety soft ICS.
But I need to test it: I don't know if it is realistic especialy in MP (I am MP player).

the honour path is too much wasted production for MP. SP wise, those 10 SPs will take a long time to get, so it's a bit too slow.

If you want to go Honour, then mix it with Tradition. You can then go on to rationalism and your choice of freedom/autocracy/order.

KiffeLesBiffles · Sep 21, 2011

MadDjinn said:
the honour path is too much wasted production for MP. SP wise, those 10 SPs will take a long time to get, so it's a bit too slow.

If you want to go Honour, then mix it with Tradition. You can then go on to rationalism and your choice of freedom/autocracy/order.

Thx I know the MP classics quite well. Just thinking of other possible technics. I aggree that 10 SP is long. But what else for pure ICS ?
Mire over Hugh nimber of cities fit well with MP rush. Honore too.

MadDjinn · Sep 21, 2011

KiffeLesBiffles said:
Thx I know the MP classics quite well. Just thinking of other possible technics. I aggree that 10 SP is long. But what else for pure ICS ?
Mire over Hugh nimber of cities fit well with MP rush. Honore too.

raw beakers work better in MP, so going for a fast Industrial push leading into Order/Planned Economy could be worthwhile.

Happiness, Global vs Local

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