Nobles' Club LXXX: Wang Kon of Korea

dalamb

dalamb

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Kingston, Ontario
The Nobles' Club series started out as a way for Noble-level (and below) players to improve their game. Most of the original participants now play at much higher levels, so this has become a way for advanced players to help others learn to play better. You can play your own game at any level and with any mod, but it would be nice to comment on the games of other players and give them advice.

Our next leader is Wang Kon of Korea, whom we last played in NC XXIV. The Koreans start with Mining and Mysticism.
WangKon.jpg
  • Traits: Wang Kon is Financial and Protective. FIN gives +1 :commerce: on any plot with 2 or more :commerce:. PRO gives City Defender I and Drill I to archery and gunpowder units, plus cheaper walls and castles. The combination might suggest a peaceful victory condition, with Protective units to help hold off attacks and FIN for a better economy and faster teching.
  • The UB: The Seowon, a University with +35%:science: instead of +25%. This synergizes with FINancial in a long game to give faster late-game teching.
    Seowon.jpg

  • The UU: The Hwacha, a Catapult with +50% versus melee units; once those pesky archers take damage, it is even easier to take out any melee defenders. It is also stronger than a catapult in dealing damage to attacking enemy melee-heavy stacks in the field (its historical role).
    Hwacha.jpg
And the start:
start.jpg

Spoiler map details :
Hemispheres, 2 continents, Islands. No edits; the start looked good and for the last few months people have been expressing a preference for fewer or no edits.
Finally, a cut and paste of our standard doctrine:
There are no hard and fast rules here: fun and learning are our primary goals, but we do suggest that you update your progress at various points in the game, using the Spoiler feature of the boards. You can post as often as you like; here's one suggestion:
  • 4000 BC (starting thoughts, no spoiler required for that discussion)
  • 1000 BC or so (how you decided to progress up the early tech/build paths, which AIs you have met, where you're thinking of putting cities, etc)
  • 500 AD or so (after establishing some cities and a possible plan of action)
  • 1200 AD or so (mid-game, Lib race, wars or peace, or whichever happened or didn't, met other
  • continent if applicable, etc)
  • 1600 AD (or when you have decided on a course of action and a specific victory condition)
  • End of game (Victory!!! or defeat, no shame in losing, especially if you tried a higher level. Learning is what we focus on, not fastest win or biggest empire)
This is just a guideline. If you're trying to improve your game, then posting more frequent updates, in as much detail as you can manage, is the best way to get suggestions from other players. If you come to what seems like a major decision and you want some advice, post an update, regardless of what game-year it is.

We also welcome players to ask for specific game advice, as we have a number or stronger players who lurk and help out with solid tips, and of course, we help each other. Replies to specific questions should also be in spoilers, with a simple "@" in front of the person the answer is directed towards.

Special Thanks go to Bleys and TMIT, who really made this series a great one, r_rolo1, mapmaker extraordinaire, for his maps in the early days of the series, and all of you for playing.
Click to expand...
The WB-saves are attached (zipped; they are bigger than standard saves). To play, simply download and unzip it into your BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Start the game, and load your favorite MOD (if you use one, if not, check out the BUG MOD), select "Play Scenario", and look for "NC 80 Wang Kon Noble" (or Monarch, etc., for higher levels)You can play with your favorite MOD at the Level and Speed of your choice. From Quick-Warlord to Marathon-Deity, all are welcome! We stuck with the name "Nobles Club" because it has a cool ring to it.
Spoiler what's up with specific difficulties :
In each scenario file you can select your level of difficulty, but that doesn't give the AI the right bonus techs by itself. Use the Noble save for all levels at and below Noble. The Monarch save gives all the AI Archery. Emperor adds Hunting; Immortal adds Agriculture; Deity adds The Wheel.

For players on Monarch or above, you should add archery as a tech for the barbarians (if you don't, the AI will capture their cities very early). This cannot be done in the WB save file and must be done in Worldbuilder as follows:
Spoiler how to add techs to the barbarians :

  1. Zoom in all the way so you can't see the rest of the map.
  2. Use the CTRL-W key (or the menu) to enter the worldbuilder. Avoid looking at the mini-map in the lower right corner.
  3. By default you're in "player" mode (look in the box in the upper right; the icon that looks like a person should be selected). You'll get a drop down menu labeled with your leader's name. Barbarians are at the bottom, so cover the rest of the list with your hand if you don't want to see who else is on the map. Select "Barbarians".
  4. Select the "Technologies" tab in the box on the left.
  5. Find Archery (the arrow head icon; 8th row, 3rd column from the right) and click it.
  6. Exit the worldbuilder.
  7. Zoom out again after the map fades, and start playing.
Spoiler huts and events :
Note: The standard saves have no huts and have events turned off. If you want tribal villages and random events, choose the saves with "Huts" in their names. If you want huts but no events, select the Huts saves and use Custom Scenario to turn on the option that suppresses events.
 

Attachments

dalamb said:
Spoiler map details :
Hemispheres, 2 continents, Islands. No edits; the start looked good and for the last few months people have been expressing a preference for fewer or no edits.
Click to expand...

Spoiler :
No!!! Add a couple of Golds please! :lol: Just kidding.

@dalamb: Thanks for keeping NC running. Is NC the longest running series in Civ4 now?
 
dalamb said:
I imagine the GOTM has been around longer. NC 1 was posted on 7 March 2008; my search-foo isn't quite up to tracking down GOTM 1 tonight.
Click to expand...

true, GOTM 1 was in Dec(?) 2005. still, 80 rounds, quite an accomplishment. :goodjob:
 
to 1040 BC, Prince/Normal/No huts and events
Spoiler :

Went Food---> BW. Wang starts with myst and mining so Stonehenge would be an easy catch. Wait, horses in the BFC? The Incans were in the way, so I build some chariots to take him out. He just finished his copper but fortunately didn't have too many guys.

Civ4ScreenShot0000-3.jpg

Civ4ScreenShot0001-4.jpg


I have no idea where Saladin is so I'll try searching for him and see if I can take him out with the remaining chariots; probably not though.

There doesn't seem to be anyone else nearby, and barbs are getting very annoying.

Unfortunately, the cities are kinda far away and my research got screwed; I'm gonna have to build a really long road, and my sole research is from scientists
 
Returning to Civ 4 after a 2.5 year hiatus.

Might as well give this a shot. Monarch / No Huts / Epic
 
vranasm said:
anyone else hating to settle on riverside gh? my first thought was to move away and most logical it looked 1W...
Click to expand...

We lose the ability to work one water tile in exchange for a grass hill and more land...tempting. I might play this at emperor or immortal.
 
I'm tempted by the riverside plains hill 2S1W, then get a quick city (pop 2 corn + hill we start on) to grab the corn/pigs as a settler/worker pump early on. Cap has decent production with hills + fp and riverside grass to cottage once CS is in.
 
1987 space victory.
Spoiler :


Really poorly played game here with everything going wrong. Saladin built the great wall, nobody else is around, and my economy was trash for the longest time; only had 7-8 cities before the economy started tanking; meanwhile Saladin had the great wall and took the rest of the continent with like 20 cities. I never managed to build enough to achieve any decent army after the chariot losses. Should have really changed the plan away from chopping out stonehenge and instead geting chariots.




Tech paced sucked; I got Parnetheon in 500 AD...I should have left Inca alive somewhere since Saladin won't trade crap because nobody is around.
Civ4ScreenShot0002-4.jpg


Eventually I built a bunch of cavalry, and conquered half a dozen of Saladin's major cities. I actually failed to cap him, because I was getting like +10 war weariness geez. On the good side, he didn't seem to hate me that much afterwards either.


Civ4ScreenShot0004-4.jpg


Civ4ScreenShot0003-4.jpg

so space was simpler. Wilem was closing on culture, so I got Caesar to attack him. It didn't slow him down that much in the end, so I prepared some modern armor/transports from cities that weren't building parts anymore. Spaceship launches a dozen turns before he'd hit legendary.



Civ4ScreenShot0005-5.jpg


Civ4ScreenShot0006-5.jpg

 
Habitus said:
I'm tempted by the riverside plains hill 2S1W, then get a quick city (pop 2 corn + hill we start on) to grab the corn/pigs as a settler/worker pump early on. Cap has decent production with hills + fp and riverside grass to cottage once CS is in.
Click to expand...
This looks like a good comment for Nobles to pay attention to: with a FIN leader a floodplains capital with lots of cottages will generate a lot of :commerce:, especially post-Bureaucracy, and with enough food to work its hills it'll generate a lot of :hammers: too. You probably see experienced players referring to having to "move the capital" -- it's often for this kind of reason.
 
Monarch advice/thoughts?
Spoiler :
I gave this map a try on Monarch (normally play Prince) but I had a lot of early trouble with barbs. I have NEVER lost so many fights against barbs. Lost a Woodsman II warrior fortified on forest tile to a barb warrior and a Woods I to a panther.

I got Aesthetics for trade, but then HC and Saladin didn't have Alpha. Self-teched Alpha, but they refused to trade ANY of their techs e.g., Iron Working. "We don't want to trade this away just yet."

Meanwhile I tech up to HA's but as I am building my army Saladin declares. I bloody his nose and get some techs for peace, but he has enough spears I can't counterattack.

Around 1200AD I have lib'ed Nationalism but am still behind HC. No idea yet what's happening on the other continent. I can probably win, but I am way behind where I prefer to be by this time.

I am friendly with HC and Sal, so not sure if I would want to fight them (Rifle draft?)

Will try to upload a save / screens tonight.
 
@awldune

Spoiler :
If you have a good enough tech lead, then you can either take the lazy way out for space or go for dom. Just because you're friendly dosen't mean you shouldn't attack, especially if they have low power. See if you can bribe one in on the other, and join in.
 
Interesting game. Up to 800 BC Monarch/Epic

Spoiler :
Settled in place to keep access to the coast in case the map required a Great Lighthouse build. Seemed like a decent capital anyway with good food, production and a river for cottages. Researched Agriculture - Animal Husbandry - Bronze Working. Delighted to see Horses pop in the capital. Not so happy to see a lack of Copper nearby.

Met HC due west who founded Buddhism. Didn't feel like trying to Chariot rush a Holy City, thought it would require too many hammers, plus he founded his second city quickly. Was hoping to find another more suitable civ to rush and eventually found Saladin. Protective and a fair distance away. Forget the early rush. Saladin hadn't founded a religion which surprised me, especially considering that Buddhism, Hinduism and Judaism had fallen by the time I met him.

Seoul looks like a capital that is screaming for Bureaucracy, with those hammer and riverside tiles. Considering that Wang Kon starts with Mysticism, I decided to tech towards Priesthood, build both Stonehenge and Oracle in Seoul. My reasoning behind this was that; 1. Use Oracle to tech Code of Laws and found Confucionism and get us on the path towards Civil Service, 2. Use Stonehenge and Oracle to generate an early Great Prophet to facilitate early game expansion, 3. Spread Confucionism to Saladin to drive a wedge between him and HC, 4. Priesthood in on the way to Monarchy, which will be needed to due to the lack of happy resources.

Managed to get all that done. Founded second city due west with the aim of pumping out Chariots to repel barbs/prevent DOW. Then founded third city due south in the flood plains for cottages. Then teched Monarchy and settled the GP in Seoul, while foundiong city 4 near the horses, pig and corn in the south.

Think for the next phase I'll found more cities to prevent HC from settling in the north, while locating Iron. Will convert to Confucionism at some point - probably when I've got Theology and am ready to attack HC. Would like to keep Saladin on my side for now while he chops away that jungle.
 
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