I went into the GlobalAIDefines xml and for liberate AI capital you get -80 relation, which is a good thing. (-50 or lower is "ally" threshold). However, when you liberate the capital you also captured it, so you get the capture capital penalty which is +80. The 2 cancel each other out and next turn AI denounces you based on previous events, which are usually bad things like "wonder coveting" and "aggressive land grabber". >_> Is this right?
The reason why you get denounced after liberating
- Thread starter Glassmage
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blightmoon
Chieftain
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I can't quite contribute into reading the code, but I suppose I could share my experience. I've only been able to liberate civs twice.
I did experience the same thing after liberating another Civ in a more recent patch. In an older patch, a civ I liberated was quite friendly iirc, or at least it was neutral all the way.
I did experience the same thing after liberating another Civ in a more recent patch. In an older patch, a civ I liberated was quite friendly iirc, or at least it was neutral all the way.
apocalypse105
Deity
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QUOTE=CivOasis;10838617]That needs to be modded, badly...[/QUOTE]
No firaxis needs to fix this..
This problem has started when the denouncing system was introduced and it still isn't fixed unfortantly...
Every patch I wonder why dont they fix this problem it has been there from the start
:sad
No firaxis needs to fix this..
This problem has started when the denouncing system was introduced and it still isn't fixed unfortantly...
Every patch I wonder why dont they fix this problem it has been there from the start
:sadThats obviously broken but why liberate a capital? it's usually a good city to hold.
apocalypse105
Deity
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UN Vote
BUt in general its better to keep thats why it needs a fix!!!!
There needs to be a good benefit to liberate it exept the UN vote . For example you should get a verry high positif diplomatic modifier and at least some respect from the leader... Or other benefits
If you get a choise between 2 things there must allways be some positif things for a certain option or else it isn't actually a choise because you are forced to pick a option or else you get a great penalty not really a choise does it?
Louis XXIV
Le Roi Soleil
That makes sense. It should be a net boost. Ideally, a large net boost because you're almost certain to have "covet land" otherwise. In the end I don't care since it's not like they can declare war on me, but it is disheartening.
This was broken before denouncing as well.
I'll re-post a suggestion I had made a while back in july (I'm surprised it got revived O_O) but that's how I think the mechanic should work.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=430510
I'll re-post a suggestion I had made a while back in july (I'm surprised it got revived O_O) but that's how I think the mechanic should work.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=430510
Louis XXIV
Le Roi Soleil
I don't think you need such significant bonuses for liberation. A diplomacy bonus should be sufficient. I do think a reduction of the warmonger penalty (especially with City-States) is a good touch. Obviously, the Civ you are war with will have a negative attitude with you essentially the same as if you conquered a city from them.
Can liberated Civilizations declare war on you? I know you have permanent open borders. They seem to dislike you, but that's not the same thing. Removing backstabbing might be a moot point if they don't attack you.
ETA: Nevermind, I think I agree completely (with the caveat of my final question). I thought you wrote that you get the science bonus. I agree they should be given techs to catch up to modernity. A simpler approach might be just to give them all the techs that are shared by both the conquering civ and liberating civ. While I suppose this could allow a theoretical huge jump in techs by a civ that never really had many to begin with, this strikes me as fairly unlikely in a pragmatic sense since most civs conquered stay conquered for quite awhile.
Can liberated Civilizations declare war on you? I know you have permanent open borders. They seem to dislike you, but that's not the same thing. Removing backstabbing might be a moot point if they don't attack you.
ETA: Nevermind, I think I agree completely (with the caveat of my final question). I thought you wrote that you get the science bonus. I agree they should be given techs to catch up to modernity. A simpler approach might be just to give them all the techs that are shared by both the conquering civ and liberating civ. While I suppose this could allow a theoretical huge jump in techs by a civ that never really had many to begin with, this strikes me as fairly unlikely in a pragmatic sense since most civs conquered stay conquered for quite awhile.
The AI system in Civ5 is terrible. Crazy knuckle-head terrible. How is it that I'm suddenly attacked by friendly Siam, which I lose a city. Instead of settling for peace I turn my country into a war economy and crack out military units until Siam is conquered. Suddenly I'm a warmonger to the rest of the world for a war I didn't even start.
There are things about Civ5 I really like, but they should have brought the Civ4 AI over instead of starting from scratch.
There are things about Civ5 I really like, but they should have brought the Civ4 AI over instead of starting from scratch.
Louis XXIV
Le Roi Soleil
I've gotten backstabbed in Civ4 as well even though I had overwhelming favorability with the AI who attacked me (I think +9, same religion and Civics). Turns out it had something to do with them hating my Vassal, though, so it made sense. It was just a hidden mechanic that wasn't entirely clear to me.
I believe they average out their attitudes with you and your vassal when you acquire them but this is not shown correctly in the diplo GUI, so it will still show them as being extremely favourable towards you.
But they will have to dow you to attack your vassal who they hate.
The Ed Carden
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I think liberating an AI should basically give you a fresh start with them, and throw any negative modifiers you had with them before out the window. Now from this point on you could still gain negativity with them in the usual ways, but at the very least you should be able to get some decent trades out of them for a little while before they start denouncing you.
GoodSarmatian
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You are also are usually the clsoest neighbor of a civ you liberated and they'll want your land.
Oversights like this show that diplomacy was completely half-assed in Civ5.
AI in Civ4 had many problems, but it wasn't as bad in Civ5, not even close. I usually didn't get backstabbed by people who liked me and were weaker except Monty and Louis. In Civ5 it looks like everybody is Monty.
Oversights like this show that diplomacy was completely half-assed in Civ5.
AI in Civ4 had many problems, but it wasn't as bad in Civ5, not even close. I usually didn't get backstabbed by people who liked me and were weaker except Monty and Louis. In Civ5 it looks like everybody is Monty.
Louis XXIV
Le Roi Soleil
Yeah, but I found this out last week not last year when it happened. My point being even Civ4, which prided itself most on diplomacy being transparent and reliable, can be opaque and unreliable. At least Civ5 is honest about this fact. Now it's so honest that, if you get backstabbed, it'll tell you it's a backstab and not some quirk of programming that caused them to hate you in ways you can't understand.
For the most part, the AI and I have an understanding, even if I don't know what they'll do next.
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