Rhye's and Fall of Asia - Version 0.8

Welcome to Asia!

This is Version 0.8 of Rhye's and Fall of Asia and the first one that has been made under my rule. After 1 and a half years of hard work, real life has struck Black Whole and he gave me all the authority. I still think that his decission to pick ME is based on 10% merit and 90% being a pain in the butt
The old thread can still be used for general feedback.

If you're new: make yourself comfy. You propably played Rhye's and Fall of Civilization, an excellent mod for Beyond the Sword that even has been shipped with the game. I'm pretty sure Firaxis stole the concepts of the Unique Powers and Independents to use it in Civ 5.
Now, Rhye's and Fall of Asia tries to put the whole concept into the History of Asia, which has been treated necligent so far. This required an overhaul of the units, buildings, techs and, of course, civilizations.

For everyone who already played it: I'm trying to bring the feeling of RFC to this mod. A mod that doesn't take itself all too serious; as long as it's fun my work is a success

Thanks to:
Black Whole, for the whole base. Excellent work.
Rhye, for RFC, of course. Needless to say that he's a demigod.
The Capo, Cybrxkhan, Ekmek, veBear, bakuel, GeoModder, hrochland, Walter Hawkwood, danrell and many more (if i forgot you, please tell me) for their art.
YodaPower for inspiring Black Whole
merijn_v1 for buttons and civopedia entries
Ki Chjang, veBear, The Turk, embryodead, BenZL43, Leoroth and a bunch of others for their input, ideas and feedback

Enough herp derp:
Download mirror(sourceforge.net)

> > >DOWNLOAD v0.8!< < <
Patch for v0.8.2
music module

There still are some issues:
First of all, it's an alpha. It's not guaranteed to run perfectly, and often unhistorical things happen.
Some civs are unplayable when it comes to UHVs: Vietnam, Chalukya, Tang, Song, Ming, Mongols, Jurchen and Majapahit. It's not forbidden to try them out, though
China is pretty unpredictable. I'll try anything except scripted collapses. I implemented a new mechanic that doesn't allow chinese dynasties to live side by side for long; except for Zhou and Qin. The problem is that an OP Han will lead to an OP Song in the end, so balancing is still necessary.
Stability is something that requires a lot of balancing. I'm on it.

This! Is! Version 0.8 and the next one will be Beta.

Version 0.8 Changelog

Gameplay changes:
1. new attempt on Islam; no more islamic holy city in Asia
2. Changed Jinja, Torii, Geisha House and boosted Shintoism to arm Japan for a Espionage-based game
3. new Ghaznavid UB: Khaneqah, replaces Great Mosque; availible a little earlier and ext GP birth rate
4. new Maurya UB: Edict, replaces Monument; -15% city upkeep
5. Altered UHVs of Qin, Han, Maurya and Japan to make them playable.
6. Ghorids are changed back to kinda-Delhi Sultanate and are a lot stronger now.
7. Added the plague module from DoC
8. If a chinese civ collapses, the youngest chinese civ gets all the cities...needs to be balanced out someday
9. A first step to a more balanced out stability module. Don't expect wonders, but it's a bit more balanced now.
10. Instead of the Zhou Chariot, Zhou get an UB: Feng
11. new Qin UP and removed the code from a really old one.
12. Some tweaks on Japan in the map
13. Song starts in Kaifeng, keeps them from conquering Machuria.

Fixes:
1. Removed Tokugawa from DiplomacyInfos.xml
2. Fixed Butuan's Artstyle bug
3. Jurchen's UP works! one half at least
4. Thanks to Siam, South East Asia got a overhaul in the citynamemanager

Additions/Removals:
1. Added TXT_KEYs for civic strategies
2. Added Han UP (keep in mind that it's just temporary); Power of Rebellion: Extra stability hit for enemy on city conquest.
3. New UHVs for Korea
4. New Ghaznavid UP: unlimited artists
5. New Korean UP: Power of Education: 1 extra beaker per specialist
6. Added Itsukushima Shrine: +1 Espionage per Specialist
7. Civopedia entries for almost everything.

Art:
1. Added art for Legalist School and Pound Lock
2. Changed art for Dongtian
3. added art for the Balangay
4. actual art for the new barb units instead of red cones
5. New art for the Khampa Horseman
6. Added the latest version of Gaozong
7. Switched art for Dharmasetu and Sri Bata Shaja
8. changed colors
9. New Diplo music, thanks to Cybrxkhan
10. Art for the Shenwu Guard by Bakuel
11. All world wonders have buttons now
12. Altered the language of the units...the best possible, i guess

Most important of all: Exported cost of units, buildings and techs, plus city maintenace cost to python! Used code from RFGW
It's quite easy to use: Go into Const.py and scroll down to the bottom: Every array has a small desciption what they do.

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Version 0.8.1 Changelog

Gameplay changes:
1. Removed the +100% Golden Age length from Elective Monarchy. It's strong enough already.
2. In the MoH-mechanism, if you have your capital in China, you can claim the Title.
3. Apart from the timeframe when a new chinese civ spawns, there will be only one civ in China
4. Moving some capitals according to history. (Jurchen and Mongolia only for the AI)
5. Pratically everytime there's no Muslim Holy City. They do have a shrine though (Jamia Masjid), which is buildable in any city with Islam and need 3 Mosques.
6. Bigger Jurchen Core; they should be stronger anyway
7. Smaller Song core
8. Siam has anything a decent civ needs: UP (the old Chalukyan one), UHVs, civopedia entries and art for anything.
9. I changed Vietnam's UHVs a little, making them playable again.

Fixes:

1. Elective Monarchy doesn't give double Golden Age length anymore
2. Pax Mongolica's effect is shown in the civopedia
3. I replaced all anachronist hints with some that are related to the modmod
4. Fixed an error in the stability maps, so Sri Vijaya will enjoy a core again
5. Lowered the values in the stability maps for Japan to prevent them from settling Taiwan and the Phillipines before Ryuukuu.
6. I tweaked the values for the Chinese to make Song in the end not that overpowered

Additions/Removals:

1. Siam!
2. Khmer gets an UU again: Phak'ak, attacking Elephant units first

Art:

1. If you claim the MoH, your Flag changes. Works for every civ
2. Every civ has a decent Button
3. A bit more appropiate flags for Han and Song, and a better looking for Tang
4. Art for the Ho Trai, Tumen Amugulang and Shufa Studio

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Version 0.8.2 Changelog

Gameplay changes:
1. A third UHV for Maurya
2. Changed UHVs for the Tocharians, enlarging the time scale for them.
3. Threshold for first Japanese UHV lowered to 90%
4. An attempt of balancing the Minor Religion spread. The spread to China is too damn high!
5. barb Camel Archer and Rajput Infantry spread Islam resp. Hinduism on city conquest, removing all other religions.
6. Moved back the Khmer to 600AD, to keep South East Asia balanced as it was
7. Changed UHVs for Chalukya to make them playable
8. Moved the date for Han UHVs to 600AD

Fixes:
1. A less buggy China for the human player
2. Fixed stability maps (for real this time)
3. No more helicopter missionaries, workers and settlers!
4. Made sure that the Indo-Greek's UHVs work again...no idea what caused the hickup
5. Removed Independants from civopedia, but added Indo-Greeks instead
6. Fixed a terrible error that forbid a decent civil war between Qin and Zhou
7. A little reduced city upkeep for Göktürks
8. Some more chinese names in Turkestan
9. Shwedagon Paya requires Buddhism now
10. Some additions in the Harrapan and chinese cityname map
11. Less techs for Jurchen, Ghaznavids and Khmer on start

Additions/Removals:
1. UP for the Indo-Greeks, but only for the human player
2. Yogis for Butuan
3. Less starting units for Siam
4. The return of the Nestorian Missionary
5. Nestorian See doesn't need a tech anymore, just 5 Churches
6. Less starting techs for Khmer, Ghaznavids and Jurchen
7. Timber is accesible with a camp now

Art:
1. Changed Indo-Greek to actual Indo-Greeks with Menander as a LH (i'm working on custom art)
2. Camels are shown properly shown in the city screen.
3. For now, there is no "Minor Religion" advisor; that sounds stupid anyway. I'm planning to include Minor Religions in the actual Religion Advisor

Stability maps coming up soon.

New Concepts:
The Mandate of Heaven:The Mandate of Heaven is a philosophical concept in the Chinese Empire to legitimitize political power, comparable to the european Divine Right of Kings. In the game, a civ with its capital in China can gain this title, granting the Emperors Residence with huge benefits. Various factors like civics, certain buildings, score and cities in China are required raise the chance of gaining it.
The Silk Route:Once in a while civs from Europe or Africa will appear in your realm. You can decide which benefit you want (Trade, Culture or Science), and based on the amount of resources your benefit will be bigger.
Chinese Civil wars:If another chinese civ spawns, after some turns the two civs get compared. Fist of all, if one civ has below -10 stability, it automatically collapses. If both civs have over -10 stability, a value consisting of the stability itself and, but just for the human player, the amount of army. The one with the lower value collapses. If the new one collapses, its cities going independant, if the old one collapses, the unimportant cities gets destroyed(low culture, far away from capital, no holy city etc.), the rest will be handed over to the new civ after some rebalancing.

Great to see RFCA is on rails again. It's been some time since I last visited the mod, I guess now I should take the time to take a look at it again.

My greatest problem with the mod was always its centerpiece, China. The Mandate of Heaven and all the various dynasties are good, but the ahistorical way of how they live side by side isn't. I'll ponder a little how to avoid this.

Leoreth said:

Great to see RFCA is on rails again. It's been some time since I last visited the mod, I guess now I should take the time to take a look at it again.

My greatest problem with the mod was always its centerpiece, China. The Mandate of Heaven and all the various dynasties are good, but the ahistorical way of how they live side by side isn't. I'll ponder a little how to avoid this.

Click to expand...

Take all the time you need

Yeah, China is a toughy Think of a 80% chance that there is a correct transition from one Dynasty to another, you'll have roughly a 20% chance of a historical game. I guess i have to make it a bit more deterministic; stability hits, and if Han survives Tang for example, they have to suffer . I think scripted loss of culture and population, destruction of cities can be justified as the outcome of a civil war... I've seen a 1000AD Zhou Empire that was 3 times ahead in points. No one wants that.
China will be the next big project.

Great. I can't really say anything constructive or specific at the moment because I guess all my previous experiences are already outdated.

Nice mod.

When you created a Sourceforge for this mod (if you create one), I will start to help you with the modding of the Mod if you want. I can do XML and artwork. (like I do with RFCE)

Sweet. You already did a lot of awesome work for this mod, so i'll try anything to keep you

I don't think Japan's scouting UHV is coded correctly; it triggers, but I had all but one east asian city visible and I didn't get it. Also, in that game, the Jurchen conquered some Mongolian city, which made me think it might be better to define a region instead of using the civ list. It would be kind of unfair if the Song conquered Ghazna or something Maybe that's what the 95% is for, but in the same game, the Jurchens settled a city just before the deadline, and there's also the possibility of conquests, so you also have to consider that.

I had a look at the python, if you couldn't tell, but tbh, it looks okay to me...idk why it wouldn't work

Also, the Qing might need a bigger stability hit; they managed to survive the Han and crushed the Tang, and were finally subdued by the Song. But kudos on the bigger flip zones.

hangman said:

I don't think Japan's scouting UHV is coded correctly; it triggers, but I had all but one east asian city visible and I didn't get it. Also, in that game, the Jurchen conquered some Mongolian city, which made me think it might be better to define a region instead of using the civ list. It would be kind of unfair if the Song conquered Ghazna or something Maybe that's what the 95% is for, but in the same game, the Jurchens settled a city just before the deadline, and there's also the possibility of conquests, so you also have to consider that.

I had a look at the python, if you couldn't tell, but tbh, it looks okay to me...idk why it wouldn't work

Click to expand...

That's what the 95% is for. I first had it at 100% but then i noticed that you can't control what you just mentioned, plus it's a nuisance to have 10 spies everywhere and move them every single turn. I might lower it to 90%.

Also, the Qing might need a bigger stability hit; they managed to survive the Han and crushed the Tang, and were finally subdued by the Song. But kudos on the bigger flip zones.

Click to expand...

That's my next project. Right now, if a chinese civ collapses, all the cities of the collapsed one will be handed over to the youngest chinese civ; but all the cities lose some population and culture. I like the results (leaves it fair and balanced), what we need is the same for the old one if it doesn't collapse. I coded a little bit and try to playtest it this weekend.

Just started a game as the Mongols, and even though I understand that you haven't necessarily had time to make proper UHV's for them, I think that a simple conquest UHV would be fine (at least temporarily). The beginning game as the Mongols is great, it really feel right with lots of keshiks to conquer lots of land, just three objectives like :
Control or vassalize all the land from Mongolia to Samarkand by 1235 (sooner would not be possible ingame I think),
Control all of China by ~1279 and
Have the biggest empire in Asia in 1300

would be alright for now.

AdrienIer said:

Just started a game as the Mongols, and even though I understand that you haven't necessarily had time to make proper UHV's for them, I think that a simple conquest UHV would be fine (at least temporarily). The beginning game as the Mongols is great, it really feel right with lots of keshiks to conquer lots of land, just three objectives like :
Control or vassalize all the land from Mongolia to Samarkand by 1235 (sooner would not be possible ingame I think),
Control all of China by ~1279 and
Have the biggest empire in Asia in 1300

would be alright for now.

Click to expand...

It sounds that you made it, than i will add it in the first patch. I'll add a raze UHV instead of the third (hangman requested that).
So that they have at least something until i can work on the late game.

Good news, Everyone: Sourceforge is up!

That third UHV is redundant. How about accomplishing the naval invasion of Japan which the real-life Mongols were not successful at?

2phunkey4u said:

That third UHV is redundant. How about accomplishing the naval invasion of Japan which the real-life Mongols were not successful at?

Click to expand...

Since the UHVs above are only temporarily, it doesn't really matter. I still consider Mongolia unplayable, because their start is unpredictable; it seemed to me that the lack of Mongolian UHVs are an aesthetic issue for some who downloaded the modmod. Which is true, and i'm trying to get rid of the Alpha smell asap
But you're right, Japan should be an objective for them.

Could you post the root, so I can have acces to the mod with Sourceforge. Can you also assign me to the project. My SVN name is "merijnv1".

civ-addicted said:

It sounds that you made it, than i will add it in the first patch. I'll add a raze UHV instead of the third (hangman requested that).
So that they have at least something until i can work on the late game.

Click to expand...

OK about the razing UHV.
I didn't really go for Samarkand so I don't really know if the date is right, but it can be changed later.
Also it's quite annoying to have to fight the barbarian keshiks that spawn all around. One of them even conquered one of my cities... Perhaps it would be better to flip the areas in the West that are controlled by barbarian keshiks at the beginning.
I'm in 1238 right now, and my economy is really bad, at 0% research and at 0 gold, my units are on strike. At first I was relying on city conquest to refund myself but the Song are so powerful that my advance is at a halt. For now, it would seem that a Mongolian game is rather unplayable (and I'm playing on viceroy...).
Also I'd like to point out that the starting location is on a wheat resource, whereas spawning them 1W makes for a better use of ressources (you lose the Iron but win a horse and a deer, and the iron can always be in the second city's BFC, my second city was 1S of the cow to the east).

The Mongols are very playable, as long as you don't conquer too quickly. I got a domination victory relatively easily and without strikes before...

btw, what is the plan for the Pax Mongolica project?

hangman said:

The Mongols are very playable, as long as you don't conquer too quickly. I got a domination victory relatively easily and without strikes before...

Click to expand...

So, less tight on time? All i need are dates when it's doable. And UHVs that doesn't trigger a Domination Victory...

btw, what is the plan for the Pax Mongolica project?

Click to expand...

The Pax Mongolica already has an effect: If you build it, the Silk Road event happens twice as often. I guess it's not displayed in the civopedia or as a tooltip, so it will be there soon

The Qin almost always defeat the Han and Zhou, why not add a Sui Rebellion to weaken the Qin or Han? Just have a bunch of Barbarian units to help bring the Tang in power, or to stop a dominant Chinese Civ until the Song spawn.

civ-addicted said:

So, less tight on time? All i need are dates when it's doable. And UHVs that doesn't trigger a Domination Victory...

Click to expand...

I don't remember exactly when I finished, but it was shortly before the Tang spawned.