Pacific/Oceania Mod- Discussion Thread

CivOasis

Ahuizotl
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I am interested in making a mod (probably 2-3 mods) in the vein of Putmalk's Mesopotamia mod, except for various regions of the Pacific.
This would likely come in two parts- one which is stand-alone (a civ pack, maybe some maps), and one which is total conversion (scenarios)
First scenario would be the unification of Hawai'i, since we already have many components for that in DLC (Polynesia) and I made an (admittedly desperately in need of re-doing) map of the Hawai'ian islands (a later, non-dlc version would be made, once the original is out there, being tested).
However, I'd be interested in making 2-3 scenarios, some CS's, some maps, and many additional civs (part of which would include removing Polynesia).
I would need help, from beta-testers and other modders, esp. since I don't know how to use lua, and cannot do graphics (partially software, mostly artistic ability).
Anyone who modded a part, fixed or made a map, or provided graphics, would be listed as co-authors.
Next few posts will be reserved for future use, I'll clean this one up later (computer issues, just wanted to get discussion started while I could).

Basically, would there be any interest in this, would anyone be willing to help (even as simple as suggestions and feedback), and are there any ideas?
 
List of planned components/features:

Civs (as information allows, may be changed, added to, or removed from at any time):
Kingdom of Hawai'i
The Maori
Tonga
Rapa Nui
Koori
Papua
Nan Madol

Scenarios (may be added to or removed from at any time):
Aliʻi ʻAimoku - The Unification of Hawai'i
Tangata Whenua - Colonization of New Zealand

Maps (Need I say it again?):
Hawai'i
New Zealand
The Pacific Rim/Ring of Fire
 
Scenario: The Unification of Hawai'i

Technologies:
Spoiler :

Sailing
Aquaculture
Wayfinding
Agroforestry
Ko’i
Cook Expedition
Tradition
Kapu
Ahupua’a
Kanawai Mamalahoe
‘Ai noa
European Contact
Vancouver Expedition

Units:
Spoiler :

War Canoe
Hybrid Canoe
Warships
Kukini
Muskets
Cannons
Va'a
Brittania

Civilizations (6):
Spoiler :

Hawai'i
Kaua'i
Oahu
Maui and Lanai
Moloka'i
Ni'ihau
 
I will gladly beta test and clean up help/strategy texts to match Firaxis' style.
 
Anything but. There were a series of wars between the British 'Pakeha' (Who actually only colonized to stop the French from being able to) and the Maori Iwi.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maori_wars

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flagstaff_War

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akaroa#English_settlement

Thanks, that'll make a good scenario (might just use the Flagstaff War, not really sure yet).
Makes a lot more sense, too, looking at other parts of the world and half-remembered names (I think I've heard of the Flagstaff War before, but I didn't know much about it).

Would it be possible to get your help for buildings/wonders and regional knowledge?
 
Sure thing! What wonders do you want, and I'll see what I can do ;)

Well, I'm not too familiar with the region, so it'll be patchy lists at first. I'm going to start with the various Polynesian groups, and expand from there, so mostly pre-European wonders, though early colonization would be good, too.

I think I'll actually start with the New Zealand scenario, so definitely the Treaty of Waitanga (sp.), and whatever else you think would be appropriate.

Also, some buildings for the Hawai'ian scenario:
A traditional town of ancient Hawaiʻi included several structures. Listed in order of importance:

Heiau, temple to the gods. They were built on high-rising stone terraces and adorned with wood and stone carved idols. A source of great mana or divine power, the heiau was restricted to aliʻi, the king and kahuna, or priests.
Hale aliʻi, the house of the chief. It was used as a residence for the high chief and meeting house of the lesser chiefs. It was always built on a raised stone foundation to represent high social standing. Kahili, or feather standards, were placed outside to signify royalty. Women and children were banned from entering.
Hale pahu, the house of the sacred hula instruments. It held the pahu drums. It was treated as a religious space as hula was a religious activity in honor of the goddess Laka.
Hale papaʻa, the house of royal storage. It was built to store royal implements including fabrics, prized nets and lines, clubs, spears and other weapons.
Hale ulana, the house of the weaver. It was the house where craftswomen would gather each day to manufacture the village baskets, fans, mats and other implements from dried pandanus leaves called lauhala.
Hale mua, the men's eating house. It was considered a sacred place because it was used to carve stone idols of ʻaumakua or ancestral gods. Men and women could not eat with each other for fear that men were vulnerable while eating to have their mana, or divine spirit, stolen by women. Women ate at their own separate eating house called the hale ʻaina. The design was meant for the men to be able to enter and exit quickly.
Hale waʻa, the house of the canoe. It was built along the beaches as a shelter for their fishing vessels. Hawaiians also stored koa logs used to craft the canoes.
Hale lawaiʻa, the house of fishing. It was built along the beaches as a shelter for their fishing nets and lines. Nets and lines were made by a tough rope fashioned from woven coconut husks. Fish hooks were made of human, pig or dog bone. Implements found in the hale lawaiʻa were some of the most prized possessions of the entire village.
Hale noho, the living house. It was built as sleeping and living quarters for the Hawaiian family unit.
Imu, the communal earth oven. Dug in the ground, it was used to cook the entire village's food including puaʻa or pork. Only men cooked using the imu.
Got that list off of wikipedia, but should be somewhat accurate.
 
Awesome, appreciate the help.

My idea for the scenario, at the moment, is to have a Maori civ and a New Zealand civ, which will be slightly modded for the scenario, at permanent war. The Maori will have pre-set cities, NZ will not. I might add an Australia civ, as well, allied with NZ. Thoughts/comments/suggestions.
 
Instead of a 'New Zealand civ' per se, I would have the British, who have one city (Russel) and are at permanent war with the Maori. Then I would have the French with a city at Akaroa (Known to the french as Port Louis-Philippe) who are a neutral force, but slightly favouring the Maori, as the British aren't happy with them.
 
Well, I can't affect the civ's attitudes towards each other, but I think Gedemon once made a forced denuciation, that may be possible.
I can force war, so that won't be an issue. Perhaps force the French into war against the British?
 
An interesting New Zealand scenario might also be focused more around the so-called Musket Wars http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musket_Wars

Basically, wars between various Maori tribes, as those who received European technology earlier conquered many of those who didn't.

This way you can have a bunch of iwi (tribes) in different areas (major as civs, minor as city states), and have the European contact done through the tech tree and maybe through social policies, rather than creating a European player.

I think the musket wars setting suits a civ scenario better; you have multiple entities of roughly equal power, any of whom could hypothetically have become dominant, lots of open warfare and conquest, and lots of technological advancement.
Whereas a Europeans vs Maori scenario tends to be more one-sided, with a single British player who is going to be dominant.
[There were hardly any French colonists, so any scenario that involved the French as anything more than a single minor city state would be fiercely ahistoric). When the British used a treaty to lock the French out, there were only ~4,000 Europeans in the entire country. All the real European settlement came later, long after the possibility of French involvement had passed.]

Brits and French might also be interesting as military city states, that might occasionally gift you gunpowder units if you were allied.

You could have interesting social policy paths, with native customs and culture vs adopting European ways, and with traditional beliefs vs christianity, and so forth.

Part of the difficulty with any New Zealand scenario though (and indeed almost any Polynesian scenario) is the limited number of military units. There were no cavalry, very little ranged weaponry, no siege units (except British cannon) and so forth; basically just clubs, taiaha (sortof a club/staff/spear), and later muskets.

Let me know (via PM) if you're interesting in developing a New Zealand scenario, I'll help out (I'm from New Zealand).
 
[There were hardly any French colonists, so any scenario that involved the French as anything more than a single minor city state would be fiercely ahistoric).
This was how I was trying to get the French - as a major power, but with only one city (Akaroa)

Brits and French might also be interesting as military city states, that might occasionally gift you gunpowder units if you were allied.
Love this idea if the scenario is about the Musket wars

You could have interesting social policy paths, with native customs and culture vs adopting European ways, and with traditional beliefs vs christianity, and so forth.
Again, awesome idea, with these being mutually exclusive trees.

Part of the difficulty with any New Zealand scenario though (and indeed almost any Polynesian scenario) is the limited number of military units. There were no cavalry, very little ranged weaponry, no siege units (except British cannon) and so forth; basically just clubs, taiaha (sortof a club/staff/spear), and later muskets.
In this case, I think what we will need to have is either through buildings or the social policies have several bonuses to different units, so they can become specialised, eg. 'Taiaha recieve +15% strength against cities' or whatnot. Also, there are really only a few naval units for inter-island battles, mainly just Waka.

Another thing, if we are to be having natural wonders renamed like the WOTAW scenario, I think Mt. Fuji should represent Mount Taranaki, but then there are the three big ones I think you need (Milford Sound, Fox/Franz Josef Glacier, Pink and White Terraces) that do not really have any model that would fit
 
Love this idea if the scenario is about the Musket wars
I would see some moderate strength "trade musket" units as being buildable, and have some superior "Brown Bess" or Enfield musket units as coming only from the Europeans.

Akaroa could certainly be a decent city state.

Another thought; probably the map should not include most of the South Island, since that was sparsely populated. Basically, make Banks Peninsula/Akaroa about the southernmost point, there could be two Maori civs in the South Island, in Marlborough and in Nelson.

with these being mutually exclusive trees
Yes, that would be the idea.
Traditional trees might give culture or happiness boosts, while European trees might give boosts with European city states, a la Patronage, or technology.

In this case, I think what we will need to have is either through buildings or the social policies have several bonuses to different units, so they can become specialised, eg. 'Taiaha recieve +15% strength against cities' or whatnot. Also, there are really only a few naval units for inter-island battles, mainly just Waka.
I think specialization could probably be done through promotion.
I could see Mere-armed soldiers as being city-attack units (close quarters weapons?) while Taiaha guys might be more generally anti-melee, or might be defensive.
I could also see some distinction by function; 3+ move raider units with lower strength, and slower moving warbands with higher strength.

I'd be tempted to leave gunpowder units as melee units too though, since I don't think the AI could deal with units that could ranged attack *and* attack via melee.

We could still have waka as trireme-like units with ranged attacks, basically the idea would be that the ranged attack represented a raid (and then a return to the canoes).

But I'd imagine a fairly small tech tree; each tech could have a lot of power, but be quite expensive.

In terms of regional specialties for various different iwi... I could imagine:

Te Arawa (Rotorua) might have religious bonuses.
Tuhoe (Ureweras) might have Iroquois-type forest bonuses.
Ngapuhi (northland) might have military bonuses (Hongi Hika was quite a conqueror)
Ngahti Whatua (Auckland) might have (European) city state bonuses, like Greece or Siam.
Ngai Tahu (south island) might have trade route bonuses.
Tainui (Waikato) might have agricultural bonuses? Or maybe diplomatic bonuses fit here?
Dunno about Ati Awa (Tarankai).

Not sure what kind of victory conditions there could be, other than military. Its hard to think of others that aren't wildly ahistoric or that feel kindof racist/colonialist. Maori didn't really win...

The Treaty of Waitangi could be a wonder that gave a 1-shot relations boost with the Europeans. Not sure what other Wonders there could be.

I guess I'd imagine the scenario as being very military-focused/conquest-oriented.
 
Another thing, if we are to be having natural wonders renamed like the WOTAW scenario, I think Mt. Fuji should represent Mount Taranaki, but then there are the three big ones I think you need (Milford Sound, Fox/Franz Josef Glacier, Pink and White Terraces) that do not really have any model that would fit
Natural wonders would certainly fit well, but yeah, would need custom art, as would any mod like this.

I might go for Whakarewarewa rather than the Terraces, and then Old Faithful would fit. We probably wouldn't want two right next to each other on the map.

The bottom of the south island was really empty, so I think I probably would cut the map off so that only the NE of the south island existed; as far west as Nelson and as far south as Bank's peninsula, (and maybe twist the whole thing a bit).

You'd think the Ruapahu/Ngaurahoe/Tongariro would need to be there. Gibraltar could be used as a proxy for the bay of islands rock arch, maybe? (kindof iconic). Or Tane Mahuta could be one. We'd want something in Northland.
The Pinnacles or Kupe's Sail (out on Cape Palliser) could be one, but those are far less well known.
Waitomo Caves maybe? Mt Hikurangi or Lake Urewera, for something east cape.

Potential luxuries:
Greenstone, whale bone, kauri, trade goods (European), shells, moa, seals, whales

Potential bonus resources:
Kumara, Fish, flax, pigs, potatoes, shellfish, stone
 
OK, so, how's this so far:
Natural wonders get re-named.
French and English are playable, but start with settler (one for France only 2-3 for England), and can't build new ones (put them in future tech).
Maori groups start with pre-made cities, and can found new ones.
Maori units (at first) will be weaker, but there will be techs for the European weapons, and all Maori units are cheaper. European powers don't have as much room to expand, tech-wise.
South Island would be completely represented, just wouldn't have anyone start on the southern portions.
Social Policies, I would like to do the exact way mentioned. Basically, 4 types of trees, 8 total. Each of the four categories focuses on something different, the two trees favor two different playstyles, and lock each other out.

Anything to change, remove, or add?
 
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