C2C - Ordinances

[Hydromancerx]

Here is an old idea, but a good idea. We already have some ordinances in the game like the "Carpool Ordinances". Here is a quite from my old topic in RoM/AND

Originally Posted by Hydromancerx

One thing I loved in the game "Sim City 4" is the fact you could select diffrent City Ordinances. While Civ 4 is not just a city it might be fun to have "National Ordinances" which would work the same way. It would be much like the existing "Civics" in Civ4 except rather than selecting from a few in each category you would just pick between 2 choices; approved or disapproved. Here are some examples of Ordinances from Sim City 4.

Legalized Gambling - Gives Incomes and allows to build Casinos but brings Unhappiness from crime.

Community CPR Training - Would Require a Hospital and give more health but would coast some maintenance.

Water Conservation Program - Not sure how this would fit without a water mod.

Paper Waste Reduction - Again this would probably need a Garbage Mod.

Free Clinic Program - Would Require a Hospital and give more health but would coast some maintenance.

Smoke Detector Program - Since there is no fires in the game really it would probably only be some sort of health or happiness benefit.

Neighborhood Watch Program - This could help increase happiness and help fight against spies.

Tourism Promotion Program - This would increase trade.

Junior Sports Program - This would give some happiness and healthiness.

Power Conservation Act - Again this would need a Power Mod.

Carpool Incentive Program - Perhaps Health from less smog and increases trade from the roadways having less people on the road.

Commuter Shuttle Service - Perhaps Health from less smog and increases trade from the roadways having less people on the road.

Clean Air Act - Probably more health but less production.

Youth Curfew Act - Similar to Neighborhood watch.

Automobile Emission Reduction Act - This would increase health.

Tire Recycling Program Again would need a Garbage Mod.

Nuclear Free Zone - Would disallow nuclear power plants but would give lots of happiness for doing so.

Pro-Reading Campaign - This could give some science.

-----

Other ideas not in Sim City 4

Anti-Drug Campaign - This could increase health.

Anti-Drunk Driving - This could Increase health.

Alcohol Prohibition - Makes alcohol illegal.

Legalizing Marijuana - Makes Hemp Legal

Green Energy Programs - Makes green buildings easier to produce at the cost of money.

Daylight Saving Time - Increases production.

You get the idea. There are tons of things we could add.

I think we should split these up into Local and National Ordinances. Local could require the Courthouse plus any related buildings. National could be linked to the Palace or other important National building.

Please give some feedback and ideas.

[Nevets_]

One thing I would suggest is having the 'legalize' ordinances actually be 'criminalize' ones, so the item in questions starts out legal and it's your choice if you want to make it illegal. Cocaine used to be sold as medicine, alcohol was available to people of all ages, etc. Most illegal or restricted drugs weren't proscribed until the late 19th/early 20th century.

National ordinances like Outlaw Prostitution could give penalties to or completely neutralize all Brothels in your nation, and local ordinances like Legalize Prostitution could require the national Outlaw ordnance, and reverse the changes it did in the city it's built/enacted.

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Then there are those to do with your neighbours and warfare.

• No attacking non-combatants when at peace
• Prisoner exchange at end of war
• Hostage exchange during and after war
• Geneva Convention on prisoner of war treatment

[Hydromancerx]

@Dancing Hoskuld

How could you make those work for ones between nations? Like World Projects?

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Originally Posted by Hydromancerx

@Dancing Hoskuld

How could you make those work for ones between nations? Like World Projects?

No, I think they would have to be done sort of like UN resolutions but you can sign up to them or not. So the mechanic needs to be looked into WLBO has something like it. So I had better finish

• unhealthiness mod
• shipwreck mod
• more specialists in city screen (essential to get to use WLBO stuff)
• documentation thread
• great people working - I know why it isn't working properly sometimes and am almost ready to put them into a FPK and let StrategyOnly play with it.

[little_cyclone]

I had been thinking about something along these lines as well after playing a recent game of Colonization. After declaring your independence you are given the option of selecting approx a half dozen or so 'rights' (basically civics) out of a list of a dozen to form your 'constitution'.

Perhaps we could utilize a similar tact, provide a running list of rights/laws/statutes/ordinances and allow the player a certain number of choices on that list. I suppose the first question would be does anyone know if you allowed to select more then one thing in a civic category? Dunno how Colonization does it...

[Hydromancerx]

@little_cyclone

In theory you could make a civic for each one with either it enacted or not. However that would be way too many civics. And I have thought about this method before. However I would not like to do it that way. And I have no idea how to do the way you describe.

[Hydromancerx]

[Thunderbrd]

Yeah, this is the sort of thing we need. A popup screen for national ordinances and a popup in each city for local ordinances. A list of issues with a yes/no option.

Establishing them wouldn't be the hard part... it'd be the ai and how they select them that would be complex.

This may be something I could achieve eventually and it is something that's beginning to press more and more with the new crime system begging for greater manipulable depth. What would really stop me right now is just flat out not having a complete mastery of the coding enough to get it established initially. But... I am learning. And maybe AIAndy or Koshling (or even another modder that joins us) could take this project on easily.

There are certainly pros and cons to each various decision. And it could be a great way to optimize your nation to its current needs. Health vs Happy vs Income vs Crime etc... I can see this being a huge improving step.

[Hydromancerx]

I would gladly remove my current Ordinance buildings if they were replaced by an Ordinances Menu. In the Sim City series they are in you city balance sheet.

Perhaps we could have "Amendments" or "Royals Decrees" for the national scale.

Then there are all sorts of cultural and religious laws that could be made.

[Thunderbrd]

I think the ordinance buildings would play into the whole thing (we're talking about the crime buildings right?) in that they would exist or not conditionally also on ordinance selections.

For example, if the city allowed prostitution, it wouldn't show up as a 'crime' if crime went too high, but it would suffer a lesser unhealth effect while giving some taxation income regardless of the crime level. No unhappiness because it would balance out. Sure some would be unhappy there was legalized prostitution and that they knew individuals utilizing those services and may have some moral objections but at the same time, those utilizing the services would find it a way to make life more tenable. When its a crime, it creates unhappiness because while the same balance applies, those who indulge now need to do so in a manner that enhances the sense of guilt, undermining any psychological benefit. (This is just a theoretical approach for the sake of an example.)

[Hydromancerx]

Originally Posted by Thunderbrd

I think the ordinance buildings would play into the whole thing (we're talking about the crime buildings right?) in that they would exist or not conditionally also on ordinance selections.

Not crime buildings. If you look in the pedia there are building you can build called 'Ordinances". Currently there are 5 "Ordinances" ...

- Ordinance - Fire Code
- Ordinance - Smoke Detector
- Ordinance - Neighborhood Watch
- Ordinance - Youth Curfew
- Ordinance - Carpool

Also ...

- Parking Meters

Note that the first 2 require the National Fire Service, the next 2 require the Police Academy and the last requires the Department of Motor Vehicles.

[rightfuture]

You could also consider having governmental policies, (not exactly like Civ V) more like the balance between free trade/planned economy, and all sorts of minor government tweaking/checking off ideas that have an impact. Examples: environmental policies(affects pollution, global warming, corporate expansion, gdp, income, etc) Judicial policies (osha laws, consumer protection, level of freedom/prosperity, Technologicial policies (economic development, rate of R&D investment, public /private research balance, etc.) economic policies (interstate trade, foreign tariffs, class stratification/econ disparity, etc.) That way you could integrate some ideas from the Sim City series more easily. Minor policies would not exactly be civic changes but could have a significant impact. Imagine the impact of Brazil cutting down the Amazon rainforest for corporations, or an authoritarian regime shutting down the press. I think minor policies is a good idea and could work with sliders/ adjustable percentage values, or checkboxes on a configurable menu like the ordinance idea. What do you guys think?

[rightfuture]

And I just saw you discussing a similar idea in the civics thread. LOL, I hope the idea gets picked up.

[Rasma]

I would say definately do national and local ordinances as buildings with a prereque of administration line buildings for local, and the capital for national.
But as for international ones I would say put those into diplomatic agreements or even make them part of the UN.

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Originally Posted by Rasma

But as for international ones I would say put those into diplomatic agreements or even make them part of the UN.

Except not everyone signed up to international ones, where as the UN stuff every body does or does not.

[Rasma]

Civ 4 still has the option to Defy resolution doesn't it?

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Originally Posted by Rasma

Civ 4 still has the option to Defy resolution doesn't it?

Yes but then it does not pass. Or am I thinking of veto.

At various times different countries sign up to "articles of war" which basically outline the rules you agree to obey. Not all nations sign up at the same time. The main examples I am thinking of are

- don't attack civilians
- don't kill prisoners
- taking/exchange of hostages
- exchange of prisoners
- ransom of special people/units eg unit lead by a general
- treatment of prisoners eg not slave labour.

[anunknownman]

i think this idea is very interesting, that way you could have certain policies that your goverment takes, but should this be implemented, do you think that some ordinances should decrese\increase diplomatic relations with other nations(like civics do)because of different idioligies the nations take????

[Hydromancerx]

I would think so. If 2 nations share similar policies then they would get along better likewise ones with opposing polices may not like each other as much.