How to bring NQ and the League closer

This is my intent to the opposite to what has been going on in the MP forum lately.

My point of view is that the more active and serious players there are in the small civ MP community the better regardless of if they play NQ or league games or just with random people.

It is also that the faster you fast can find a gg of the game type of your choise the better. Both the league and NQ is good places to do that.

This thread is not ment to discuss what differs NQ from league or wich group is best. Keep that discussion in other threads please. What I would like to discuss here are suggestions on how we can bring the groups closer together.

I tend to allways log in to both the NQ and the league chat when starting civ and I play with members of both groups.

This thread is ment for suggestions how to make the active MP community grow and how both NQ and the League can help it to do so.

the top NQ players VS the top League players games?

Joint tournaments?

etc....

best regards

HI KETIL AND THE REST OF CIV COMMUNITY-------i think it will be hard 2 bring theese 2 groups closer.... NQ was started as the opposit to the league..we didnt like their rules in a game..........
it is hard for a real NQ player to have their rules........... i think NQ is building upp the community again and the league should be happy that NQ came...
maybe a tournument just for fun would be cool to play with league(but they are pro and will kick ass)..how can rank system with no ranking system work togheter...

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/NO_QUITTERS

Kyp Duron is organizing a Civ5 teamer tournament as we speak, he is canvassing for idea in this thread.

http://www.civplayers.com/index.php?section=smf&topic=9754.0

Any and all Civ5 players are welcome to join the tournament when we finalize the settings and date. Yes you will have to spend 3min and create a league account, but that in no way means you are selling your soul to us :-/

Civplayers league have been working to improve the MP community for 10 years in 3 of Sid Meier's games, and that will continue to be our focus for as long as we exist. We welcome NQ to take part in making the community a better place. But starting out as "not being like the league" was probably not the right attitude, that is a glass half empty idea instead of a glass half full :-/ Not that I don't think NQ is doing something good, I do, but they should have started out with a vision of doing something that the league is not doing, and then doing that well.

That would have prevented the initial animosity that happened. There is room for both systems and there is no reason for either group to fear the other. As I have stated before there is nothing keeping people from joining both groups if they want too, and Steam lets you have many chats rooms open at once as Kettil as stated.

Being different does not mean we can not cooperate, IMHO.

CS

idk if you consider running down the entire timer every single turn to be a gg lol

Biz_ said:

idk if you consider running down the entire timer every single turn to be a gg lol

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Apparently you have not played since the last patch that allows players to move units after the end turn button is pressed :-/

CS

1. step: no more spaming

NQ is a great concept: I applaud the group, I had some gg there.

My game of choice right now is teamer, I am finding great action 3vs3 (and even 2vs2) at the league. IMHO, teamwork adds another dimension to the game, kind of like how multiplayer takes the game beyond singleplayer. The battles are epic, much better than FFA IMHO because they require coordinating forces between several players, larger armies ,more planning/strategies/tactics than FFA.

The "clickfest" is less important, with 3 people on a team fast-clicking isn't as game changing as 1vs1.

Also there are more choices... one Civ can go tall the other wide, one can focus on build/tech the other can focus on military...

With 3 people on a team I think the luck evens out more than FFA... for example iron never seems to be problem, you can give it to your teammates.

There is no reason to bring the groups closer. They both exist for a reason. One has been formally around longer, but they are different for a reason. In fact, if I understand it right one was created because of the non-inclusiveness of the other?

League is about determining who is the best ciV player in the world. They have rules to prevent inferior players from colluding to mess up the rankings.

NQ is about determining who is the best ciV player in the current game. Since they don't need so many rules, diplomacy is more exciting.

DaveMcW said:

League is about determining who is the best ciV player in the world. They have rules to prevent inferior players from colluding to mess up the rankings.

NQ is about determining who is the best ciV player in the current game. Since they don't need so many rules, diplomacy is more exciting.

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This is why the two groups cannot be brought closer together.

I don't agree with your statement at all. Yes league will tell you who is best at civ in a duel(with limited map type), teamer (with limited map type), or CTON (with turn limit).

Each of those situations are certain aspects of the game not all of the aspects of the game.

If it were possible to play a 16 person mp civ game, I can assure you the way the "best player in the world" at a duel plays would not work to win this game.

Since the most players you can get in a game to even have a chance at working is 8 currently it may seem like the duel player is best at civ ever, but I offer the theory that the more players that are added to the game the less the "duel" player will succeed.

DaveMcW said:

League is about determining who is the best ciV player in the world. They have rules to prevent inferior players from colluding to mess up the rankings.

NQ is about determining who is the best ciV player in the current game. Since they don't need so many rules, diplomacy is more exciting.

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Do you play in the league DaveMcW? I learned a lot from your posts, wondering if I have been playing you and not realizing it.

DaveMcW said:

League is about determining who is the best ciV player in the world. They have rules to prevent inferior players from colluding to mess up the rankings.

NQ is about determining who is the best ciV player in the current game. Since they don't need so many rules, diplomacy is more exciting.

Click to expand...

I don't think we have ever made a statement that we determine "the best player in the world", we do offer a ranking that allows players to compare their skill against other players. But saying who is the best player in the world is a lot trying to say who the best Boxing Champ ever was :-/

Here is a quote from the preamble to our rules:

The basic premise of the league is to facilitate players finding each other, who are devoted to Civilization , so they may compete in a sportsman-like manner. Our philosophy is play hard, but play fairly. It is NOT winning at any cost. Respecting other players, no matter their skill or standings on the league, is the cornerstone of this community; treat other players, as you would want them to treat you.

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Play hard but play fair, is a pretty good general description what probably makes the league and NQ different, but I still think we can co-operate, I personally think the barrier is personalities not our vision of playing Civ....

CS

CanuckSoldier said:

I don't think we have ever made a statement that we determine "the best player in the world", we do offer a ranking that allows players to compare their skill against other players. But saying who is the best player in the world is a lot trying to say who the best Boxing Champ ever was :-/

Here is a quote from the preamble to our rules:



Play hard but play fair, is a pretty good general description what probably makes the league and NQ different, but I still think we can co-operate, I personally think the barrier is personalities not our vision of playing Civ....

CS

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Whoa. So civ NQ players do not play fair now? Not only are we awful at the game (not from you but from others), but the founder / owner of the league now says our group (NQ) does not play fair! I would report you but it would do no good.

uigaw423 said:

Whoa. So civ NQ players do not play fair now? Not only are we awful at the game (not from you but from others), but the founder / owner of the league now says our group (NQ) does not play fair! I would report you but it would do no good.

Click to expand...

That is not what I said, I said the league "plays hard(but fair)" and that idea best describes the league, I said nothing about NQ. I did not say NQ players don't play fair nor did I ever say anything about their skill levels. I know likely English is not your primary language, but before you "report me" you should learn to understand English better. What I was getting at is that NQ plays non-competitive games, so they are more relaxed, so "playing hard" doesn't describe the relaxed atmosphere of NQ games. Were as in comparison the league is about competition, though as our rules state it is not at the expense of winning at all costs, and respecting other players is paramount.

If you don't know what "play hard but fair" means then read the entire preamble to our rules here and maybe you get what I was talking about.

http://www.civplayers.com/index.php?section=smf&topic=9206.0

CS

uigaw423 said:

I don't agree with your statement at all. Yes league will tell you who is best at civ in a duel(with limited map type), teamer (with limited map type), or CTON (with turn limit).

Each of those situations are certain aspects of the game not all of the aspects of the game.

Click to expand...

The problem is you can't transfer "best at FFA" into a ranking system. As soon as you publish your rank, people will start giving "-1 Past games have proven you are better than me" diplomacy penalties. How do you measure the value of a win when the playing field isn't level?

I played in league in Civ3.

I only played one FFA in Civ4, but two thirds of the players went hostile on contact and eventually mass declared war on me. Based on my Civ3 reputation!

I have not yet played Civ5 multiplayer.

CanuckSoldier said:

That is not what I said, I said the league "plays hard(but fair)" and that idea best describes the league, I said nothing about NQ. I did not say NQ players don't play fair nor did I ever say anything about their skill levels. I know likely English is not your primary language, but before you "report me" you should learn to understand English better. What I was getting at is that NQ plays non-competitive games, so they are more relaxed, so "playing hard" doesn't describe the relaxed atmosphere of NQ games. Were as in comparison the league is about competition, though as our rules state it is not at the expense of winning at all costs, and respecting other players is paramount.

If you don't know what "play hard but fair" means then read the entire preamble to our rules here and maybe you get what I was talking about.

http://www.civplayers.com/index.php?section=smf&topic=9206.0

CS

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So now I can't read English. Clearly it says that we don't "play hard but fair" in NQ. I guess you are right. I know I personally cheat every game AND I do not play to win. Quit bad mouthing people that don't want to be part of your group full of limitations please.

You can probably get away with bad mouthing me on here, which I find ridiculous and unfair.

DaveMcW said:

The problem is you can't transfer "best at FFA" into a ranking system. As soon as you publish your rank, people will start giving "-1 Past games have proven you are better than me" diplomacy penalties. How do you measure the value of a win when the playing field isn't level?

I played in league in Civ3.

I only played one FFA in Civ4, but half the players went hostile on contact and eventually mass declared war on me. Based on my Civ3 reputation!

I have not yet played Civ5 multiplayer.

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I get what you are saying Dave, but I think you would find that doesn't happen. But whatever floats your boat.

also I find it hard to believe (even in CTON) that you aren't going to put more effort into attacking the person you think is shooting out into the lead.

CanuckSoldier said:

I don't think we have ever made a statement that we determine "the best player in the world", we do offer a ranking that allows players to compare their skill against other players. But saying who is the best player in the world is a lot trying to say who the best Boxing Champ ever was :-/

Here is a quote from the preamble to our rules:



Play hard but play fair, is a pretty good general description what probably makes the league and NQ different, but I still think we can co-operate, I personally think the barrier is personalities not our vision of playing Civ....

CS

Click to expand...

Here we go starting to blame the personalities of others for your own shortcomings. If the League had a good way to find FFA games with No quitters from the beginning, there would never had been any need to create a group especially designed for FFAs. Furthermore, since the league never cared for how we like to play the game, we had to do it ourselves.


That being said, we are also all about making the MP community better, but we really don't know what to do. What do you want us to do CS? Please come with concrete suggestions in this thread. Blaming the personalities of others is not a good way to start.

uigaw423 said:

So now I can't read English. Clearly it says that we don't "play hard but fair" in NQ. I guess you are right. I know I personally cheat every game AND I do not play to win. Quit bad mouthing people that don't want to be part of your group full of limitations please.

You can probably get away with bad mouthing me on here, which I find ridiculous and unfair.

Click to expand...

I am not bad mouthing you or NQ, my point was that the league is by nature competitive and NQ is not focused on being competitive. You are taking my statements out of context and intentionally taking them as insults when they were never meant to be that.

But this is all I will post on this, as you have clearly stated to me in chat that you have disliked the league all the way back to Civ3, so plainly that is colouring your responses. And there is nothing to gain from arguing in here.

We will have to be mature adults and agree to disagree.

CS