RR14 - Wa shaa Allah

r_rolo1

King of myself
Joined
May 19, 2006
Messages
13,818
Location
Lisbon, Portugal
After 2 long and tiring games revolving around espionage ( and thankfully we managed to win the second in spite of being a game with low sealevel ), I decided to gie a go to one of my favourite scenarios that come with the stock game, the BtS version of Earth 1000 AD ( for those interested, Single Player-> Play Scenario->Earth 1000 AD ( there is the vanilla version, that has some diferences , that is called in the same menu in BtS as Earth 1000 AD ( Civ4 ) ... also fun if you don't mind 2 minor civs ) .And because in the last time there was a poster that called me a coward for going with Japan in monarch, I decided to pick one of the civs that start in Deity :p
Spoiler :


Well, it is not as dificult as that, since ( as I'll show below ), Saladin has some good oportunities ( and dangers ). But again , this is a game where some civs play in Chieftain ( Spain, for a example ) ...

Anyway, the full variant :
Code:
- E1000AD as Saladin on Deity

- All VC open

- No matter how we win, all the surviving civs must have Islam as state religion in the end of the game
The third rule is both to roleplay and to give a gameplay twist. One of the things that I noticed in RR13 is that the BtS stock AI is pretty stupid regarding war concessions: It is normally easier to get a AI to vassal, than to acept any other concession ... and I want to see if it will be easier to steamroll the world and kill everyone or to keep all civs in peace and harmony ( with some cop work of Arabia :D )

There are some big caveats , though ...

Let's start with our diplo situation in game start:
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Lovely, isn't it ? And, to make things harder, they will all be in RTT for quite a while ...

Anyway, let's look at the maps, starting by the west:
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This is easily the worst part of our empire ... mainly because 2 of this cities are doomed. Cordoba has 2 unpromoted archers and Spain has 6 free knights, so most of the times you will lose it very fast. Syracuse will also be lost with ease, either to any European that has knights as to German ( er... HRE ;) ) via cultural pressure ( Rome is packed with culture stuff ). The two Afican cities are backwaters and will most likely suffer blockades from one of christian powers ( normally Byz ), so not een seafood can save them. No military units worth mentioning, a issue when barbs start to come out

Egypt and Western Arabia
Spoiler :

This is a area where you don't have competition. More, you have here 2 of your finest assets: Cairo, with his insane BFC and with Mids in ( a normal target for humans playing Eropean powers :) ) and Mecca, that has the Islamic shrine and has a quite good prod potential. It also has a lot of unused FP south of cairo and a easily capturable barb city ( I strongly suggest to capture it, since it is a Christian city )

Military worth mentioning: on Camel Archer in both cities. The one in cairo will probably fend out barbs and capture Aksum, while the mecca one will have most likely a certain death in the next map area.

Middle East
Spoiler :

This is where the Arabian civ game is really decided ( and the AI normally loses it's act sooner or later )

The real prize in here is Jerusalem, with 2 shrines. Unfortunately this is also the target of 4 civs: the French, HRE and English ( 2 units + galley, representing the Crusades ) and Byzantium. The Europeans alone normally are not a concern ( human controled Europeans are other issue, since Cairo is easily taken with the European knights ), but Byzantium is a very, very serious issue, due to the fact that they start with 4 Cataphracts and they cut through anything before rifles as butter. I've played a game or two as Byz and if you push the cataphract window to the fullest, they only lose steam when you reach Korea ( after killing everything in between ) ... not that the AI will do that , but it makes defending Jerusalem a very problematic issue ( made worse by the lack of LBs there ). Thism eans that normally you need to send eery unit in hand to Jerusalem .. and that is where the CA from Mecca will probably die ).

Adding to that, those barb cities to the north of Baghdad ( a major powerhouse after watermilling it ) hae some barb HA ... a nuisance, but it means you can't leave Baghdad undefended or simply with a token archer.

Military worth mentioning: One Camel archer in Jerusalem, other in Baghdad. The first is needed there and the second ... well, the second IMHO should go east. More on that below.

Persia and Oman
Spoiler :

In itself it is a very unspectacular area, with lots of plains and desert and not much of food. The real prize in here is a almost undefended India to the east, with only a couple of phants... and a quite lucrative Benares ( the other double shrine of this map ) in hand if you move fast enough.

Military worth mentioning: 3 Camel Archers in Ghazni, other is Suhar. The first ones, more the one in Baghdad, are to blitzkrieg India before they start making LBs, the Suhar one is to cover for Baghdad.

Last but not least, the AP screen:
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Why this screen? First to show that the AP is Christian ( duh ... btw ,for those really really distracted, it is in .... Rome :D ) and that we are part of it. There will be a leader vote between Justinian and Charlemagne in t0 and another vote in t9. The AP is normally nice for Sal, since it might stop wars against him ( we can also pray for a stop war vs Justinian vote in here ) and it is a way of gaining some diplo ... a vote for Justinian is normally a wise move in t0

I forgot to grab a tech screen, but we have the southern brach of the tech tree up to Guilds ... the northern branch is quite more depopulated and Engineering is sorely lacking ( no pikes to deal with justinian cataphracts ). In the middle we hae up to paper ... Anyway none of this is much of importance, since our tech rate is quite abissal ( 34 turns for Edu in break point ) in the beginning and the military issues trump tech in the first sets.

My plan for the first set would be something like this:

- Defend Jerusalem. No matter the cost.

- Take Aksum

- Try to get to Benares ( this one is heavily RNG dependent ... if we lose 2 CA taking the more western Indian city, we can't take benares most likely )

- Revolt from Serfdom to Slavery . I know we have much to war and much to improve in our lands, but we need to whip improvements and units ( top priority is a wall in Jerusalem and maybe a LB in Mecca )

Roster

r_rolo1
nocho
lymond
ruff_hi
LKendter
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Alternates
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(?) means pending confirmation

P.S First no save ... for obvious reasons. Second, internet cookie for the SG title meaning as usual ( the latin form is not the best possible, but I have to work within the restrains of my keyboard ... anyway, three latin languages have a direct derivative with roughly the same meaning, so it should not be as hard as that ... to add 2 members of the team actually speak 2 of those latin languages :p )
 
Lurker's comment: subbed.
 
where is my :popcorn:?

Could you please explain more the difficulty settings? I admit I am quite confused with what you said.

Deity is out of my league.
Does this mean AI's are Deity level or you play Deity level maintenance or ? How this difficulty transitions to normal games?
 
The human player gets deity maintenance, hut luck, WW penalties ...

The diference is that, unlike in regular game, not all the AI are playing noble ;) The europeans ( except Justinian, that plays in Monarch ) all play below noble... OTOH you start with the biggest empire of the world , so if you play it right, Deity is not such a big handicap.
 
looking for a sub or alternate? I played this game as France in a pbem game - made peace with Saladin (another human) straight off and proceeded to take all of Europe. Later, China, Arabia and Russia all gang tackled me (I survived that and battled back). Much later, China nuked the ^@#$@ out of me ... didn't survive (or even like) that.
 
here!
 
In, but put me at the end of roster.
I've never played this scenario before.
 
I'll be lurking this with interest. Don't have quite enough time to play another SG unfortunately.
 
You're not waiting for input, are you rolo? :D I assume you'll just try your luck a couple of times and present us the best RNG outcome to continue with? :mischief:

Anyway, I'll have to request to be moved down the roster as next week (weekend included) I won't have access to the civ comp because of a trip.
 
LOL ;) I already played the set ... still had no oportunity to post. And no, no heavy RNG gaming ... even if because doing that in a Earth map would be a time drain of gargatuan proportions :D

Next week you can't play ? So you can pick it up today ? ;)
 
Since my week starts on Monday and posted "next week" before midnight rolo-time, the next week I meant is this week indeed... And since I see no save nor report I certainly won't make it today. Nor the rest of this week for that matter. :p
 
Ok, I started the set by noticing that I had said some nonsense stuff in the OP, especially regarding unit positions and civics ( we were already in slavery ). Anyway I started the game exactly by changing Despotism to HR:
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Maybe I could had gone Rep as well ...

Our really nice position in Jerusalem :/
Spoiler :

Between french, english, german and bizantine units, we had 8 land units and 3 galleys. if they had coordinated we would not have a snowball chance in hell of holding it. But we all know how the AI is good in coordinated atacks...

Anyway, for good measure , I whipped extra arcehrs in there ( and also in Cordoba ... I might as well gamble and try to keep the city )

AP leader vote :
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Nothing too much. Voted Justinian, the german dude won.

On the Indian front OTOH we were making progress:
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For those that claim that the odds are rigged, this was a 27% win ... ( and no, nocho, no gaming of the RNG was involved )

To my actual surprise Cordoba holded the first 2 attacks . But again 6 knights vs 3 archers + warrior ( to get a extra unit just in case they ate the 2 archers remaining of t1 attack ... that was exactly what happened ) is not a fair fight:
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It would fall in the next turn, along with Syracuse, taken by the germans. So far my predictions are with the clock :(

On India, we had captured the big prize:
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And again some luck was involved ( flanking CA retreats doing damage to top defender at 23% ) and no units were lost.

I also lucked out in my attempt to clear out the crusader units:
Spoiler :

I managed to damage the top defender ( that injured x-bow that is shown in the pic ) while not losing the CA doing it and after that all the other units there had no defensie bonuses ( knights and a catapult ). I must add that the rest of the crusader units had already died in attacks to Jerusalem and the Bizantines had retreated their units to consolidate ( until the end of the set Justinian have been making a stack in Attalia ( see screenie ) ... Seeing 6 cataphracts there was not reasuring at all ). I had to do that before they bombed Jerusalem too much and Justinian decided to come aboard ... more on that below.

Anyway, crusader units dead and some war success won over the frenchies, the germans and the english. Also less pressure oer Jerusalem ... and a GG, that was not used yet.

On India ...
Spoiler :

In here my luck went dry and I lost all but the last 2 CA.... really griping because India only has one more city. Anyway, besides capturing a now not so fast worker, I have made no further movements in India.

BTW I met a new friend:
Spoiler :

Pathetically weak OFC. I OB'ed with him in hope to see him go muslim.

One more city to the glorious Caliphate:
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A actually important one, since it is our only AP religion city besides Jerusalem. We should work on that as soon as the pressing military issues are more or less fixed.

Next turn, one more ...
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Ok, crapland, but it closes that aproach to our core cities. It needs a decent garrison as soon as possible .

I played 12 turns to get the AP vote done ... It was a sensitive issue , so I think that it would be unwise to finish the set without that sorted out. BTW the ote was ...
Spoiler :
... the best possible of all of them for us .

The vote passed and so we get atleast a 10 turn breathing space without having to fear the black riders of Mordo.... err, the Byzantium UU . I took the line and peaced out with everyone that was willing to give us something/white peace us and was not Indian :
Spoiler :





That leaves us in war with the Indians, the Germans and the Spanish. The first would be nice to kill completely, the other two want something to peace out and IMHO they are not a threat in the short run.

Ok, I finished my set here.... End of set pics:

First, F1:
Spoiler :

Most of the cities are making infra that we sorely need and growing. Most of the cities can be whipped if needed ( I've been waing to whip workers, since we sorely need more ... we have 5 of them and one was captured ). Anyway, we still need to get someplace pumping units ,especially to shore up Jerusalem ( I'm pretty sure this was not the last of Justinian for us, given his deeply entrenched hate ( -10 in pre-start "past events" ) )

Glance:
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Definitely not popular. Also notice that we still have to meet the Far east civs ( should not take long )
Techs
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Not bad, but please be very careful in trading techs with the Christian civs. Besides most of them being turbocharged via dificulty settings, they are in a religious lovefest... and you know what that does to the tech rate.

Anyway on discussions to make:

As you might have noticed, I putted the teching in Engineering. I also considered going banking and then Rep + merc ( we can still do that, btw ), but in the end the extra movement ( we have a BIG empire ) and castles ( I would definitely sleep with more peace of mind if Jerusalem had one ). I think we should finish it and then go banking ... we have 5 shrines in hand , after all ;)

We should also consider to spread christianity and islam. The first because of the AP bonuses and the second because of our state religion ... but we still have a lot to do.

Jerusalem needs some LBs . In fact I had been stockpiling cash and have not used the GG just in case we needed to get some of our archers in Jerusalem to go LB in a emergency. That scenario for now is postponed, but we still need to defend Jerusalem ...

Speaking of that, I'm divided between leaving the 4 CA we have in Jerusalem ( we are still in war with the germans and the spanish ... ) or to send them to India to finish them and maybe to get something out of the SE Asia cities ( they start barb and atleast one was still not captured by the Khmer ). Safety vs gains, the oldest strategic dillema ...

Did I mentioned that we need workers ? .... :p 5 is ridiculously little for the task in hands.

Just to end, keep a eye on Byz hands full status. Please ;)

@ nocho

Strange, I thinked that in all European countries the week started at 0:00 of Sunday :D More , you show little faith in my posting skills ... if I was saying that you could pick it today, it was because there would be conditions for that to happen :)

Anyway, that makes lymond UP

 
Got it. Caught up on the reading, but need to review the game, which will take even longer. Looks good, rolo. This will be a crazy game. I'll give my thoughts by tomorrow.

General thought though - I think we should definitely make use of Spiritual as much as possible. Civics, of course. However, would it be against the variant to switch to Christianity for a while to foster good will with the Euros as we subtly convert them all their cities to the true faith.
 
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