Lonely Hearts Club, BtS Edition, Chapter LXXII: Wang Kon

ecuwins

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Welcome to the 72nd edition of the Lonely Hearts Club for BTS. In the Lonely Hearts Club we explore strategies to cope with one of the most dreaded situations in Civ IV ( possibly the main reason for reloads after the military collapse one ): starting in isolation....

Our next leader is Wang Kon of Korea.
Spoiler :
XZNB9.jpg

Traits: Financial & Protective
Financial will prove its worth here. There are lots of coast tiles when on an island and a lot of the food will come from the sea. Not to mention boosted cottages :mischief:

Protective may be of use if you decide to do a gunpowder invasion. But that's all I can think of ATM.

Techs: Mysticism & Mining
Mysticism, sigh. Well, Stonehenge may not be terrible here, but I hate the GPP pollution from it. It does open up the path to Oracle, so there is that.

Mining is good, nuff said.

Unique Building
The Seowon
A University which adds an additional 10% to research, for a total of 35%.

Unique Unit
The Hwacha
A Catapult which enjoys a 50% bonus against melee units.


The Start
Spoiler :
viUHj.jpg


For those who are new to total isolation, you may want to take a peek at r_rolo1's guide, You, Yourself and your shadow : Some lessons on isolated starts

You will find the zipped saves below. Choose your level then choose your level (more precisely) then choose your speed and get underway. For Monarch+, don't forget to add Archery to the barbs. No huts & no events are selected.

Suggestions for updates are:

Checkpoint 1 - when we have explored the island and are aware of what resources it has. Its not so important when this is, but this is a time to discuss city sites etc. Don't look into a checkpoint 1 spoiler until you have reached this point yourself.

Checkpoint 2 - first contact - when we have met all the other AIs. At this point we can discuss our strategy to get to this point and our plans for dealing with them.

Checkpoint 3 - when we are committed to a victory condition (or at least think we are).

Checkpoint 4 - Victory (or defeat).

Finally, a thank you to r_rolo1 and all those that came before him in this series' initial run and to TheMeInTeam for the map creation guides, and to everyone else who co-hosted this series. Enjoy!
 

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1E would grab an extra cow, but I'd probably use that in another city. Probably SiP, and AG-AH-Sailing for some GLH abuse, but on immortal I don't know if I can get it that after such a delay.
 
1W would grab an extra cow, but I'd probably use that in another city. Probably SiP, and AG-AH-Sailing for some GLH abuse, but on immortal I don't know if I can get it that after such a delay.

IMO GLH is decent but not spectacular w/o foreign trade or intercontinental trade and you might be better served diverting the hammers elsewhere...even colossus might be a better draw depending how fast you want corporation as a tech compared to astro and whether you have copper/mining luxuries/etc.

I don't like in place compared to 1E. You can always tile share the cow (or corn) as needed, but I don't see that a new city would enjoy that jungle land you can fog peek too soon and a 2nd city placed 3E of start position just to work the cow seems iffy. However if you move 1E you can work cow in capitol BFC (6 yield tile sooner) without worrying about jungle, at no move cost. 3hill + cow is fine for early production too. The site would blow for cottages w/o FIN but with it they're of course worth considering anyway, though this place looks better for GPP TBH.
 
Colossus fail gold is much more useful than colossus in astronomy beelines. There's a chance you won't even get the fail gold in time.
 
Colossus fail gold is much more useful than colossus in astronomy beelines. There's a chance you won't even get the fail gold in time.

That's true, it IS pretty hard to get w/o oracle.

Do the trade routes from astro really beat out prioritizing, say, civil service? UBs?

GLH is no guarantee at immortal and especially deity either, no matter what duckweed wants to tell you :lol:. Sometimes it goes ~1800 BC or even a bit sooner if REALLY unlucky.
 
I think SIP is fine and AH might be an early skip
 
Well I tried this on Monarch and quit when I met Julius around 1300 and realized how pathetically I'd been teching. This is doubly embarrassing considering I've been playing strictly no-tech trading games recently...

Spoiler :
My "empire" at 75 AD. I'd managed to grab ToA in capitol... in hindsight, not worth the hammers in an isolated map.

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Sorry if I didn't zoom in enough to make these pics meaningful.


I beelined for Optics to get some foreign trade routes. Meanwhile, since I'd founded Hinduism and Christianity, I had used 2 GProphets for shrines and was running prophets and building Hindu buildings and missionaries in the false hope I'd get AP.

Meanwhile my tech rate spoiled and I didn't get Compass till 1140.

Spoiler :
TNCw2.jpg


150 years later, my tech rate is still in the toilet because of maintenance costs:

OGuv5.jpg

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At this point, I'm thinking big commerce is my only possible redemption. So I tech towards banking
hHMGV.jpg


Then I meet Julius. I had did a little religious whoring in hopes to force the AIs to prematures clear jungles for happiness resources. But meeting Julius was enough to show that this strategy had really destroyed my tech situation to the point where I'd really have to start playing desperately to recover...

Nq1iU.jpg


Here's the save, if anyone wants to show a great way to recover from a crappy tech start.
 

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This was absolutely crazy map in the end. 4 AM here, but have to write at least some kind of report...oh boy, my wife will be crazy on me tomorrow

settled 1E, won 1974 space race and even if it was mostly boring the ending was very hot!

Check the final screen so you have some idea what was happening last few turns!

I hope someone will read the wall of text i produced (heavy spoilers) as I know i will hate myself for not going into bed 2 hours before...

Spoiler :


As for my strategy. Since it's LHC I considered from the start as most powerful GLH as mentioned by others, well missed it by 5 turns or something.
Then slooow teched MC and luckilly got the colossus which was very good with this leader.
City 2 built Mids with the stone 1st ring on size 2.

Somehow tried to hold on the lower path (ignoring currency, alpha) and slowly getting towards optics.

It led to superslow game for me and eventually found AI's (I think it was like 500 AD?).
To my big surprise when I finally got the whole picture around 1k AD the lib race was still on! even if I slow teched Astronomy before I decided I switch the aim and hunt towards lib race.

Well this game the lib race was more pure denial since I got Lib->Nat and got absolutely nothing from it (no marble no TM). Education though was pretty neat thanks to the UB.

Then I had to slowly identify the weakness and target. The target was set as Space race with corporations.
At first I didn't want corps, but I had good Mining inc (giving +9H) and it was very open after I got rifling since I initially wanted go AL and SP.
At Rifling i decided otherwise, mostly because I popped few turns before GE so the decision was easy.
I had to MM a bit the next GP for GM though. Sushi was waste for me though :-(.

After both corps I just set target for Space and thought that it will be boring. Not so this game!
This world turned out hot, like I didn't saw for veeery long time.

First... everyone hated everyone (great for me!) and there was wars here and there almost perpetually. The biggest WTH came when Tokugawa opened Manhattan project! Out of all AI's Toku was the first one.

Luckilly I had Uranium and Fission (I tend to beeline Fusion right after Ind+Superconductors) and thought...hmm well I don't use nukes, so let's build 3 ICBM's, just for the fun of having them.

The game slowly progressed towards. Some AI's starting their space race, the most dangerous being Romans, but the perpetual wars led to easy ride (or at least it looked so).

Tokugawa finally realized he has nukes and started to tactical nuke everyone! made me some laugh...

Since the race looked so tight and I didn't have good production. The lack of food in some areas led to subpar sizes. Didn't have enough cities and generally the situation wasn't hot. I decided that I don't want to risk 2 engines, but will go with 1 which should delay the SS by marginal number of turns (10 compared to 12).

I even badly placed IW, but i didn't do proper calculations playing in a hurry.

And finally launched the SS... but then!!!

Whoa out of the blue Sury comes with his invasion led by some heavy carriers, destroyers and transports and aims DIRECTLY! at capital...
I was "WTH!!!" and thought this game is lost. Was staring at the screen veeery angry (3:30 AM doesn't make you cold about things I tell you).

But remember I built those 3 ICBM'S???? A-ha! let's try our new toy! just 2 ICBM's suffice for the intial wave of ships wiping the transports out... 'uuuuuf' gj! good planning some say...well pure luck I say.

Well since i already launched and was doing the usual waiting for finish with teching FT I dropped the slider and switched into ICBM's and Tac Nukes with the aim to nuke SUry to oblivion...

Well then to my surprise I couldn't hit any ICBM or TacNuc!!! The damned Jets are shooting it down with 100% success rate... It was another "WTH".
I had to switch to some battleship, some modern jets. It was very crazy, since he raided me very heavily meaning I couldn't even build modern units at points!

He landed yet another invasion force with like 4 tanks, 4 mech infantry some artys...
Well i had some ICBM's and just nuked my land, had partial success! heavily damaging the troops, but didn't have enough to finish them.

The battle for Mids begun! next turn of course captured.
Well not so quick my boy sury! I have in capital 7 industrial Infantrymen! With some Modern Jet support I recaptured the Mids.
But he does yet another push and captures the Mids again.
haha! but you have like 5 str after those attacks! And at the final turn of the game I get my Mids back!

So this was the epic battle for Mids at the end as documented by this screenshot
Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot1366.jpg


 
Emperor/Normal

Trying something a bit unorthodox :crazyeye:

Checkpoint #1
Spoiler :
OMG, what a junky island! I meant to throw a lake up north for irrigation, ops. Anyway, went Agriculture first, you can derive the rest from the screenie.

XDKLn.jpg


Worker>Warrior>Settler. Settle stone and start on GWall straight away. Once the stone is online, Mids in the cap. I just let it grow into unhappiness, then whipped for 3 pop asap. Now it's time to REX this piece and barbs are already building some cities for me up north.

The Plan?
I'm thinking this map calls for beelining astro and invading the closest viable AI. That being said, I'm also thinking about leaving Pyongyang production heavy. Meaning, I will get a GSpy(it's on track to be GP #3). I want to stash him and use him to infiltrate my first target, mostly for the city revoltness. If that seems unnecessary, or a plan B is called for, then infiltrate with the intent of tech stealing. Any thoughts?
 

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Spoiler :
Whoa out of the blue Sury comes with his invasion led by some heavy carriers, destroyers and transports and aims DIRECTLY! at capital...
I was "WTH!!!" and thought this game is lost. Was staring at the screen veeery angry (3:30 AM doesn't make you cold about things I tell you).

But remember I built those 3 ICBM'S???? A-ha! let's try our new toy! just 2 ICBM's suffice for the intial wave of ships wiping the transports out... 'uuuuuf' gj! good planning some say...well pure luck I say.

Well since i already launched and was doing the usual waiting for finish with teching FT I dropped the slider and switched into ICBM's and Tac Nukes with the aim to nuke SUry to oblivion...

Well then to my surprise I couldn't hit any ICBM or TacNuc!!! The damned Jets are shooting it down with 100% success rate... It was another "WTH".
I had to switch to some battleship, some modern jets. It was very crazy, since he raided me very heavily meaning I couldn't even build modern units at points!

He landed yet another invasion force with like 4 tanks, 4 mech infantry some artys...
Well i had some ICBM's and just nuked my land, had partial success! heavily damaging the troops, but didn't have enough to finish them.

The battle for Mids begun! next turn of course captured.
Well not so quick my boy sury! I have in capital 7 industrial Infantrymen! With some Modern Jet support I recaptured the Mids.
But he does yet another push and captures the Mids again.
haha! but you have like 5 str after those attacks! And at the final turn of the game I get my Mids back!

So this was the epic battle for Mids at the end as documented by this screenshot
INSANE! I take it Caesar had the tech lead for most of the game?

In any case, great recovery, sir. It sounds like you were "daggered".

A lesser man (eg. me) would have rage-quit. But you fought for the mids...

Can I ask why? Why were 'Mids so important in late game?
 
Spoiler :



In any case, great recovery, sir. It sounds like you were "daggered".

A lesser man (eg. me) would have rage-quit. But you fought for the mids...

Can I ask why? Why were 'Mids so important in late game?
Spoiler :


Well defining who was the tech leader for the whole game is tricky. I think I was the leader, but there was couple of AI's competing for that spot.
The AI you mentioned is surely one of them.

Well you have to realize the relative position of that city to mine capital. it was only 3 tiles away and I was around 7-8 turns from victory at that point but enemy had 2-move troops which were technically superior to mine (well in theory I could build modern armor, but since i was pillaged...).
In that situation every turn counts and battling back and forth at that point in nearby place, but NOT for capital was probably the best could happen.
I even calculated with the fallout slowing those 2-moves just to slow down progress, because the danger was real.
I was thinking about building some defense (you always can after you finish the tech tree), but was kind of blind.

Was really surprised with the AI's attempt to stop my SS. It always is surprising when AI does the right thing and even more if it's overcontinental invasion which was very precise since i was totally pillaged to stone age.
The only thing that the AI didn't done right was the number of transports, only 3 won't cut it.
So big respect to the AI in this game and AI programmers generally.
 
sooo how did this end @Vran, was your wife mad? :D

not really, but I was at myself... sleeping only 4 hours is not something i would like to do in my age.

btw AZ runs this game on his video channel (lame attempt to be at least a bit on topic ;-)).
 
Just played Lonely Peter on Prince/Normal, No Huts/Events, but that was easy because I got Stone and ran an SSE. Gonna try this.

Spoiler :
Pretty terrible land on the island, a Lake near the Stone would have made this game way easier haha.

1800, I've got Mass Media while everyone else is on Education and Replaceable Parts. Gonna win this by lategame culture, it's pretty over IMO.


Well, I won in 1954, probably could have done it sooner had I gone for Fast Culture or actually ran Artists. At the end, 3 people DoWed me, but nothing came of it.
 
What's with the "junky land" claim :lol:?

Immortal/Normal

Checkpoint 2

Spoiler :

Settled 1E

We go mids due to stone, and otherwise prioritize hunting (hook fur on island to south) and metal casting (2x mining luxuries) after currency. I luck into stonehenge in 2nd city just after 2000 BC and grab mids in cap. Barbs are easily spawnbusted by warriors.

After metal casting, go calendar ----> civil service. With forge, fur camp, and 2 calendar resources a city gets +7 :) BEFORE rep. Plenty. With that we just fill in on the special tiles, cottage spam because we're FIN, and mash end turn...

Screenshot-7.png


Screenshot-1-5.png


I see nothing out of the tech picture that isn't manageable even on immortal (I bet true deity players could win from this position on deity).

Screenshot-2-4.png


JC is ~4% ahead on land, but that counts 50% of his vassal (so we're up there). Judicious trade/diplo keeps us in and once we have town spam will allow korea to pull ahead.



1878 UN

Spoiler :


I actually had to work for it a little, diplomatically :rolleyes:. I obviously got JC to pleased and sury didn't mind so I took him for the ride too (civic bribe to keep caesar in rep for shared until I could get him friendly w/o it, used defensive pact there too). Sury likes OR so i just ran NSR OR.

With ~1300 BPT after infra investment etc I just went mass media after AL and gifted the techs to Qin. Little jerk declared on me but sent nothing in time to break massed pro infantry.

Problem was, me + JC + sury were about 40 votes short :sad:. So, I bribe them both on Qin. JC takes a city, so does sury, Qin caps. I then bribe them both on hammurabi and JC takes another city.

Meanwhile, all of my cottages get destroyed in favor of bio farms. I then take my UN victory.

Screenshot-3-3.png


Before the bribe on hammy I had mono on internet and ~12 turns to complete it, meaning I almost certainly could have just won space (sury's city 2 and 3 weren't even past 15k in culture). However, UN is quick and easy and if you can run circles around AI diplo that easily, just take it. Much less effort than going over there and ripping Qin + hammy to bits, although I could have with infantry vs rifles or in hammy's pathetic case, muskets.



I didn't win lib or circumnavigation but this never actually felt hard...
 
^After biology, you can build farms everywhere. Irrigated ones get +1 food, though.

Edit:1595 AD AP diplo loss(grr....)

Spoiler :
Settled in place, and went from there. Got TGL, but it didn't help much, I don't think. My techpace felt real slow, possible because for a while my only commerce resources for a long time was the gold and gems, and no riverside didn't help. When I met the other opponents, I was really behind in tech, although I achieved relative tech parity through trades with Hammy and QSH. Sury and JC(who had vassalized vicky) were blowing out in tech. I had gotten democracy and was planning to go Sushi+Mining Inc. for a space race win, but JC decided to pull a lame AP win.

Position at 1595
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Tech Scenario
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