Nobles' Club LXXXV: Augustus Caesar of Rome

dalamb

dalamb

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The Nobles' Club series started out as a way for Noble-level (and below) players to improve their game. Most of the original participants now play at much higher levels, so this has become a way for advanced players to help others learn to play better. You can play your own game at any level and with any mod, but it would be nice to comment on the games of other players and give them advice.

Our next leader is Augustus Caesar of Rome, whom we last played in NC L; we last played Rome under Julius in NC LXII. The Romans start with Fishing and Mining.
Augustus.jpg
  • Traits: Augustus is Imperialistic and Industrious. IMP means faster settlers and faster Great General emergence; IND means faster wonders and forges.
  • The UB: The Forum, a Market that gives +25% Great Person Points, a nice boost for a non-Philosophical leader.
    Forum.jpg

  • The UU: The Praetorian, a stronger Swordsman widely viewed as the best UU of its era. Some people suggest researching Bronze Working > Iron Working immediately to get Praets online as soon as possible.
    Praetorian.jpg
And the start:
start.jpg

Spoiler map details :
Hemispheres, medium sea level, 2 continents, islands, selected AIs.
Spoiler edits :
Regenerated quite a few times to avoid maps where one AI had too much easy territory, or where the script generated a 3rd "continent". Swapped starting locations to ensure we had the coastal start, at least one "nice" neighbour and at most one "nasty." Verified there is iron within reach of a 2nd or 3rd city, for the UU. Extended a nearby river.
Finally, a cut and paste of our standard doctrine:
There are no hard and fast rules here: fun and learning are our primary goals, but we do suggest that you update your progress at various points in the game, using the Spoiler feature of the boards. You can post as often as you like; here's one suggestion:
  • 4000 BC (starting thoughts, no spoiler required for that discussion)
  • 1000 BC or so (how you decided to progress up the early tech/build paths, which AIs you have met, where you're thinking of putting cities, etc)
  • 500 AD or so (after establishing some cities and a possible plan of action)
  • 1200 AD or so (mid-game, Lib race, wars or peace, or whichever happened or didn't, met other
  • continent if applicable, etc)
  • 1600 AD (or when you have decided on a course of action and a specific victory condition)
  • End of game (Victory!!! or defeat, no shame in losing, especially if you tried a higher level. Learning is what we focus on, not fastest win or biggest empire)
This is just a guideline. If you're trying to improve your game, then posting more frequent updates, in as much detail as you can manage, is the best way to get suggestions from other players. If you come to what seems like a major decision and you want some advice, post an update, regardless of what game-year it is.

We also welcome players to ask for specific game advice, as we have a number or stronger players who lurk and help out with solid tips, and of course, we help each other. Replies to specific questions should also be in spoilers, with a simple "@" in front of the person the answer is directed towards.

Special Thanks go to Bleys and TMIT, who really made this series a great one, r_rolo1, mapmaker extraordinaire, for his maps in the early days of the series, and all of you for playing.
Click to expand...
The WB-saves are attached (zipped; they are bigger than standard saves). To play, simply download and unzip it into your BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Start the game, and load your favorite MOD (if you use one, if not, check out the BUG MOD), select "Play Scenario", and look for "NC 85 Augustus Noble" (or Monarch, etc., for higher levels)You can play with your favorite MOD at the Level and Speed of your choice. From Quick-Warlord to Marathon-Deity, all are welcome! We stuck with the name "Nobles Club" because it has a cool ring to it.
Spoiler what's up with specific difficulties :
In each scenario file you can select your level of difficulty, but that doesn't give the AI the right bonus techs by itself. Use the Noble save for all levels at and below Noble. The Monarch save gives all the AI Archery. Emperor adds Hunting; Immortal adds Agriculture; Deity adds The Wheel.

For players on Monarch or above, you should add archery as a tech for the barbarians (if you don't, the AI will capture their cities very early). This cannot be done in the WB save file and must be done in Worldbuilder as follows:
Spoiler how to add techs to the barbarians :

  1. Zoom in all the way so you can't see the rest of the map.
  2. Use the CTRL-W key (or the menu) to enter the worldbuilder. Avoid looking at the mini-map in the lower right corner.
  3. By default you're in "player" mode (look in the box in the upper right; the icon that looks like a person should be selected). You'll get a drop down menu labeled with your leader's name. Barbarians are at the bottom, so cover the rest of the list with your hand if you don't want to see who else is on the map. Select "Barbarians".
  4. Select the "Technologies" tab in the box on the left.
  5. Find Archery (the arrow head icon; 8th row, 3rd column from the right) and click it.
  6. Exit the worldbuilder.
  7. Zoom out again after the map fades, and start playing.
Spoiler huts and events :
Note: The standard saves have no huts and have events turned off. If you want tribal villages and random events, choose the saves with "Huts" in their names. If you want huts but no events, select the Huts saves and use Custom Scenario to turn on the option that suppresses events.
 

Attachments

In before someone whines about how overpowered Praets are, and then ragequit when they beeline IW to find nothing. :lol:

But on a serious note, the close jungles nearby might give an excuse for such shenanigans... Obvious SIP, tempting wonder spam potential given our traits.

I'm also wondering if that body of water we're at is closed. I'm gonna lol if I build the GLH and realize it's in a pond. :p
 
Assuming settle in place...


Micromanagement problem #1:

Assuming that you want to play Workboat->Warrior->..., what is your best build plan?

Micromanagement problem #2:

Assuming that you want to play Workboat->Worker->..., what is your best build plan?

Micromanagement problem #3:

In the spoiler below, there is a picture of Rome after following a plan for problem #2.
(a) What turn is it?
(b) The picture also reveals an error in play - find it.[1]

Spoiler :

nc85.micro.png



[1] only one? I suspect I'm going to get schooled....
 
Another alluring map by the host.

If I play I will be playing at Emperor level and going to expand/war untill scince is at 10-20 %. With that in mind, start techs with BW followed by TW, Aggri, AH to writing.

SIP. City build will be WB, WB, Whip worker, explorer Wboat and settler. All this likely change once the map is revealed.

VoiceOfUnreason said:
Assuming settle in place...


Micromanagement problem #1:

Assuming that you want to play Workboat->Warrior->..., what is your best build plan?

Micromanagement problem #2:

Assuming that you want to play Workboat->Worker->..., what is your best build plan?
Click to expand...

I am confused by the question, what do you mean by the build plan? Aren't these your build options? Or are you talking about what to follow?
 
fishing + mining = Boat first, research BW and whip worker, chop 2nd boat :)
With a 2 hammer tile, build the Boat fast (too bad there is no plains forest).
 
As overpowered Rome is, I find Augustus not as good as JC for world domination with praets, I tend to go broke with him quite often :(
Gonna play and report back.
 
Like Mylene said, what I'd do is tech BW

Work Grassland Forest for 5 Turns, 10:food:15:hammers:
Work Grassland Cows for 4 Turns, 22:food:23:hammers: (grown to pop 2)
Work 2 Grass Hill Forests for 2 Turns, 0:food:35:hammers: (workboat completed with 5 overflow)
Work Clams + 3 food+hammer tile for 4 Turns, 0:food:33:hammers:
Whip worker, work Clams and build 2nd workboat as chop then mine grass hill 1sw, followed by warrior(s) to pop 3 :)

*edit*

After checking VoU spoiler pic for errors i wouldn't follow plan above exactly :) Since I'd sip nothing spoilered about map after first few turns thou :)
 
to me I would start with WB on grassland hill for 1f 4H overall production meaning WB is in 8T.

tough to say if it's best to wait to size 2 with worker or not... would have to actually open the game and check research costs and timing.

BW looks like clear choice
 
AbsoluteZero said:
Rome is not overpowered. You have to tech all the way to IW to get a unit that will still lose vs shock axes.

Inca are overpowered.
Click to expand...

In MP, Mali are even worse.

Q: How do you stop a small pillaging stack of skirmishers hitting early if you're not playing Inca?

A: Damn it!

Inca loses its strength in MP though, because humans just build warriors, don't expose their workers like idiots (usually), and don't readily give up defensive positioning in their land...so often quecha does nothing in those games while things like fast worker/skirm are ludicrous.
 
So if not growing you'd do this or something similar

Grassland Hill for 7T 7:food:28:hammers:
3 food tile for 1T 10:food:30:hammers: (WB finished)
Clams for 10T 10:food:60:hammers: (worker finished)
Worker chop 2nd WB out.
 
Habitus said:
So if not growing you'd do this or something similar

Grassland Hill for 7T 7:food:28:hammers:
3 food tile for 1T 10:food:30:hammers: (WB finished)
Clams for 10T 10:food:60:hammers: (worker finished)
Worker chop 2nd WB out.
Click to expand...

doesn't look bad...

we just take out the barbs with options I guess so they don't screw our rex ;-)

that plains tile which isn't forested looks promising, but I think i didn't saw much copper on such tile, more probable is horses.
 
3T later worker + no overflow in to 2nd workboat doing that way thou so not sure if 3 turns of commerce on clams is worth it (about only advantage no growth gains over whipping worker at pop 2)

Both ways have to chop 2nd WB so we have time for warriors or if get copper to hook it up for barbs :p
 
There's an additional twist on the growth first sequence for workboat -> worker that I don't think has been caught yet... just putting it out there.

Also, the sequence feels as though tech pace could become a constraint. This being Noble's Club, I went through it at Noble, but I haven't verified it at higher difficulties.
 
Unless I goof, the UU's strategic resource is always within reach of a 2nd or 3rd city; that's been part of my standard strategy for a long time -- possibly since I started making maps. I agree with Freakz that Augustus isn't quite the conqueror JC is since Org is better for building larger empires sooner. With IND it might be attractive to build the Great Wall, plenty of defenders, then wait to be attacked and wonderwhore until you get a couple of GGs; this could let you put off IW in favour of more typical early techs. However offense is almost always the best defence in Civ, so I imagine I'll want to conquer at least one neighbour with Praets -- it'd be a shame not to use them.

Regarding map stuff most of you probably don't want to know.
Spoiler :
2 continents usually means post-Astro for the 2nd, so unlikely you can conquer the whole world with Praets.

I swapped our non-coastal start with another AI to get that initial map, since I want anybody with Fishing to actually have fish, but the RNG really did give that location 3 food plus cows.
 
Emperor/Normal

1st Serious NC after my son was born, plus got a 2nd job for extra cash. :crazyeye:

up to 1000BC

Spoiler :

I don't give a sh*t to the 4f seafood. So, SIP and boom, there is the irrigated rice. worker first and farming first! then BW. built a warrior to grow to 2 and built a settler to settle NW of gem. All neighbors met before long. MM was an easy target for the UU rush, however, I was torn between saving him as the puppet tech trader or eating him up alive. Now, 1000BC, settled 5 cites, poor teching, just got writting, and i'm the first on this continent... i'm more likely to attack southward to kill fred and monty well befriending MM for easy tech trading. i'll need that in this game. Just got the iron hooked up and Praets are on the run!
 
VoiceOfUnreason said:
There's an additional twist on the growth first sequence for workboat -> worker that I don't think has been caught yet... just putting it out there.

Also, the sequence feels as though tech pace could become a constraint. This being Noble's Club, I went through it at Noble, but I haven't verified it at higher difficulties.
Click to expand...

Off top of head the only thing i can think of is whipping WB into the worker, or not teching BW first.

Also note i was out on the 3 Turns earlier worker with growth, since 1 turn is spent in anarchy so its only 2 :)

I'm considering doing this on Noble to practice the lower difficulties :)
 
VoiceOfUnreason said:
Also, the sequence feels as though tech pace could become a constraint. This being Noble's Club, I went through it at Noble, but I haven't verified it at higher difficulties.
Click to expand...

Just did a quick check of this - it looks like Bronze Working comes in on time up to Immortal (where you make it with two beakers to spare). Agriculture is late as low as Monarch.
 
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