No writting tech deity domination game

Tabarnak said:

I'm thinking about a IW beeline without any GL or NC for a while. You can't really archer rush since you can't upgrade any units to an archer. Same for warriors. I wonder if it's possible to continuously steamroll on deity(i never tried that much, but some new mp strats that are remarkably strong can works at deity with aggressive luxury selling).

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Ok so i decided to start this thread to see if it's possible to win at deity without researching writting at all. To make things more creepy, i added some beloved civs like Greece, Monty and al. We start as Washington, one of the best(underrated) civ around. Also, to make this possible, it's a pangea map. Everything else is standard.

Everything can be done excepted self-pillaging from forts and self pillaging burned city land. For sake of success, i admit to sell luxuries to immediately DoW them. First sentence is more like a bug than anything else. Not the second sentence.

The starting file is below to those who want to try.

I for myself started the game and after 95 turns i landed like this on the only and first try(don't check if you play) :







I couldn't sell lux and DoW my first opponent so it wasn't cheesy at all in the beginning. I fought at -33% for some turns. I lost like 3-4 swords i think that i immediately replaced. I surprisingly see how a kind of strat like this, looking kinda poorly, is in fact pretty strong.

Toughts?

Isn't it a bit late for Halloween creep fest?

I'll try to take a shot. A really long break from work is over now and for some reason I fear one attempt won't be enough here. Hopefully I'll find the time. Sounds like fun. It's been a while since I was mercilessly slaughtered. Time to acquire new scars on my ego.

I don't see how this would be possible on Deity (standard map). Maybe on a tiny map or a less difficult setting (like Emperor). On Deity you might get lucky and take out 2-3 neighbors with swords/longswords (presumably using the free GS from Liberty finisher to bulb Steel) if the map conditions are right, but how could you compete in tech with runaway civs across the map? Eventually (or inevitably) you would be fighting against infantry/artillery with your rifles/cannons (if you even get that far). Your only way to increase science rate is to conquer and you would quickly run into a wall.

You can always sign some RAs. Every other civs will discover Philo sooner or later. Maybe taking advantage of Minutemen before upgrading for Rifles, probably around turn 160 at best.

I will play my 2nd part tomorrow.

well in my last mp duel I had 7 Swords /4 Cities and even ok happyness in turn 34 - guess u can have same in turn 45-50 at standard speed and obviously will 7 swords kill ai at turn 50 - killing 1 ai gives GG which should be enough to easily kill another ai soon after. Well with milking ais u proly can have 12 swords at turn 50 - or buy some CS with missing lux

All the puppets give u some science .. only real "problem" will be happyness - no libraries dont matter if u got enough pop

tommynt said:

well in my last mp duel I had 7 Swords /4 Cities and even ok happyness in turn 34 - guess u can have same in turn 45-50 at standard speed and obviously will 7 swords kill ai at turn 50 - killing 1 ai gives GG which should be enough to easily kill another ai soon after. Well with milking ais u proly can have 12 swords at turn 50 - or buy some CS with missing lux

All the puppets give u some science .. only real "problem" will be happyness - no libraries dont matter if u got enough pop

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Problem can be iron too. It's not a skirmish map . But yeah i got 6 swords and 2 archers by turn 45.

Iron shouldnt be a problem - there WILL be some CS having it - and as said - deity ais got enough gold for you to buy some CS

tommynt said:

Iron shouldnt be a problem - there WILL be some CS having it - and as said - deity ais got enough gold for you to buy some CS

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That's right, after a certain amount of time. We talked for around turn 50. After 70-80, yeah everything is possible. You need for your first wave of upgrade. After this part, you can buy some CS for sure.

Turn 116 :



I don't see Longswordmen yet, they are all busy at war. I'm guessing that the tedious situation for all civs make the tech rate pretty slow for a deity game. No HS, ND or PT yet.

Tabarnak said:

Turn 116 :


I don't see Longswordmen yet, they are all busy at war. I'm guessing that the tedious situation for all civs make the tech rate pretty slow for a deity game. No HS, ND or PT yet.

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A recent patch (I think the .332 one) effectively cut the AIs opinion of upgrading units to ~0. They do it once in awhile, but not enough anymore.

So if you get a decent LS army together, of course you're going to steam roll the closer AIs until their cities start producing muskets or LSs.

Once France hit Gunpowder (if they haven't already) you'll get slowed right down.


I'd like to see how this turns out though. There's usually at least one AI that super techs. Playing without writing, and therefore no GSs, will definitely be harder at that point.

In other good news you are killing the largest military and the highest pop. Russia is your only threat if you pull off this current war and I haven't seen her do that well end game ever. Even if she does tech rifles you will have a large production advantage that you will be able to slowly kill her as well. The next 30 turns probably decide this.

Pretty much agree with you guys. Romans is by far the biggest threat. France doesn't make any at all presently and he's not that big. Russia has the biggest growth rate though(Catherine is currently showing to Hiawatha who is the boss).

Speed will be the essence of a next success/fail. What to do with the ge btw? Any suggestions? GA? rush Ironworks in a city(i can right now)? Wait for any wonders from the bottom tech tree?

After Rome, if i can get through, i will get France and continue right to see Russia. Then i will bring everyone in the center of map and wait for rifles/cannons. If i'm lucky, i should be ready for turn 180-190 for the last blast. Lack of is what makes me mad right now. I just can't upgrade all my archers immediately to speed things up. Quantity owns here.

Well maybe a GA with the next ge can be at least good.

Tabarnak said:

Pretty much agree with you guys. Romans is by far the biggest threat. France doesn't make any at all presently and he's not that big. Russia has the biggest growth rate though(Catherine is currently showing to Hiawatha who is the boss).

Speed will be the essence of a next success/fail. What to do with the ge btw? Any suggestions? GA? rush Ironworks in a city(i can right now)? Wait for any wonders from the bottom tech tree?

After Rome, if i can get through, i will get France and continue right to see Russia. Then i will bring everyone in the center of map and wait for rifles/cannons. If i'm lucky, i should be ready for turn 180-190 for the last blast. Lack of is what makes me mad right now. I just can't upgrade all my archers immediately to speed things up. Quantity owns here.

Well maybe a GA with the next ge can be at least good.

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If you had gone to Theology, then you could GE pop the Hagia Sophia for a GS to get you closer to Rifles.

Or settle it in a unit producing city and punch out more units.

No writting, no theo. There is 5-6 archers waiting to be upgraded. A golden age will probably jump me from -20 to +60 . That's enough to upgrade them all coupled with some lux sales in a few turns. I have already 6 big cities.
Antium has a 6 iron tile and i need it.

Making units will take time to bring them to Rome. I think i will burn it for a GA. I really need more strong ranged units to support my LS and to kill most units as possible. I'm going to have +1 from monuments soon. This will bring me enough in towns to support maintenance after the GA will end. Then i will take the third policy from Piety giving me another free GA. Wide empires and GAs have a good synergy.

8 GA turns from 116-124 + 7 GA turns form a GG around turn 135 + GA from a policy for around turn 145 + A possible extra GA for turn 150 form another GE. This will, i hope, fuel everything right. I only do a war at a time so keeping 1 GG is enough i think.

I hope this makes sense. I will continue my game later tonight after work.

ok, I understand the early game 'no writing' attempt, but your mid-late game will be shot.

Without Writing, you can't get to University or Chivalry. Without those, you can't get Banking or Economics. Without that, you can't get Military Science. Meaning.. you end up with cannons and rifles as your best units.

Your end goal is patently impossible. That said, I'm quite impressed.
Granted, you've faced one of the most self-destructive civs in the game (Aztecs) and one of the most peaceful (Iroquois), but I'm amazed you could pull this off. I've always thought of sword rushes as impossible on deity.
And now the questions:
- Did you hard-tech steel or use the liberty GS?
- What was your build order? How quickly did you get the first few cities up?
- Did your 4-5 archers help significantly?
- Most importantly, would this be possible with an average start (with 6 iron available somehow)? If not, what made it special?

MadDjinn said:

Meaning.. you end up with cannons and rifles as your best units.

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Yep. If i can outproduce units, i have a chance if i'm fighting at tech parity. Fortunately, tech rate is damn slow for deity(more like emperor). Lot of wars everywhere, almost no RAs. Rifles may show only around turn 160 at best. Good news, i will probably hit this tech around that time, or a bit later.

w a i n y said:

Your end goal is patently impossible. That said, I'm quite impressed.
Granted, you've faced one of the most self-destructive civs in the game (Aztecs) and one of the most peaceful (Iroquois), but I'm amazed you could pull this off. I've always thought of sword rushes as impossible on deity.
And now the questions:
- Did you hard-tech steel or use the liberty GS?
- What was your build order? How quickly did you get the first few cities up?
- Did your 4-5 archers help significantly?
- Most importantly, would this be possible with an average start (with 6 iron available somehow)? If not, what made it special?

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I think it's theorically possible. You need some luck too. I fough Aztecs with 6 swords and 2 archers at turn 45. I killed more than a dozen jags. Iroquois declared war on me around turn 50 when fighting Aztecs but no units showed until turn 60.

-Liberty GS

-Scout/monument/warrior/settler/settler. All cities excepted capital settled on a ressource(iron) or lux to shave turns. Last city for iron. Beelined iron right of the bat.

-Not really for now, i'm waiting to upgrade them. I have 4-5 crossbowmen right now but it's not enough. I want a dozen of them to clear the path more efficiently. I rush buyed 2 archers for the Aztec war.

-It turned to be an average start because i didn't discover eldorado even if we clearly see this wonder on a screenshot. I don't think it's a too OP map. Not much luxuries to sell. Every civs can hook silver somewhere, making deals even more scarce. I didn't sell much luxs seriously. Pretty problematic. I got lucky to capture the GW from Hiawatha i guess.

Obviously, it's impossible to win with these settings on any other non-pangea maps, excepted maybe some archi/low sea maps.

scary thing is that you spelled it writting more then once

Zakkkke said:

scary thing is that you spelled it writting more then once

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I've seen much worse mistakes from native English speakers. But that's off topic.

Anyways, even without the no-writing twist, REXing to IW, hardteching to metal casting and using the GS for steel seems like a solid start, even if you do have to forgo the National College and delay libraries and universities for a while. I really do have to try it sometime

w a i n y said:

Anyways, even without the no-writing twist, REXing to IW, hardteching to metal casting and using the GS for steel seems like a solid start, even if you do have to forgo the National College and delay libraries and universities for a while. I really do have to try it sometime

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Yeah. No writing is surely a bit too harsh lol

Good point.

P.S. : My english is not my first language.