Warmonger's Delight - A peaceful builder going awry

Ladies & Gentlemen, I invite you to partake in a game designed to sate even the most bloodthirsty of appetites. Forget mortal kombat, banish thoughts of blood sports (and lay down those rare steaks) - this is where the blood is at.

This game will be always war, but it will have a few variants. Firstly, all the civs will be militaristic. Yes, I thought you'd like that. Secondly, land will be at a premium: standard map, 20% land. Tensions and border disputes will occur in BC times. Thirdly, we will not trade at all. Period. No trades, of any sort when you meet a civ or thereafter. Upon meeting a civ, war shall be declared IMMEDIATELY. After that, we may NEVER contact the civ, for any reason; all envoys must be refused, we may never drop in for a friendly chat to see what they would offer for peace (as if), what techs they have, how many cities they have, if they have access to a strategic resource, whatever. The only espionage capability will be after building the intelligent agency and planting spies. We rely solely on our own initiative, and whether we live or die, it is us against the world.

The world setting will be designed to be harsh; this has not been finalized but I'm thinking 20% continents, cold, normal rainfall, 3 billion years. Barbarians raging. I think Pangaea would be too brutal and I would like this game to emphasize all areas of combat, so naval and aerial engagements will be important late in the game. Archipelago may lead to a total lack of early fighting, which is a crucial aspect of this game. Continents strikes the best balance.

Difficulty will be regent. There have been plenty of excellent high level always war games (Sirian's infantry, LKendter's Mongols, to name but a couple), but I am a relative newcomer to always war (though I've been practising plenty lately) and I want to encourage people who have not considered always war or who are looking for a challenge without being overwhelmed by the difficulty of high level games to apply. In any case, given the settings and the nature of the game, the difficulty will feel like emperor (which is approximately my skill level). So please do not hesitate to apply if you are a regent or better player. I promise this will be fun!

The civ's will be Zulu, Mongols, Vikings, Germans, Chinese, Celts, Aztecs and Romans. Japan is the only militaristic civ left out (because Japan starts with the wheel, all the others have warrior code, so this is partly a balance issue). We will choose who to select and the remainder will be our foes. The idea in choosing tight land and militaristic civs is to encourage war, not just us vs the AI, but also intrafighting amongst our opponents. As I say, I have decided to let go of my builder insanity and release all in a bloodbath!

I will post greater details later including my own experiences of always war and possible strategies. At the moment, however, I would like to gauge interest and comments, including ideas of adjusting the settings and what civ to choose. I look forward to hearing your views

EDIT: also victory conditions. I'm not entirely sure if the AI is programmed to recognize what victory conditions are open, and if anyone knows anything about this, then I would appreciate the input. If it is, then I think leaving conquest as the only condition might be within the spirit of this game, to encourage even more fighting. Perhaps with a PTW twist, such as regicide for greater risk (again, open to comment)

i like this thing, i'll play if you let me

I'm a always war newcomer as well. My level is monarch (with my eyes closed...), but moving up to emperor level.

So if you let me, I'm interested...

About regicide: the AI doesn't know how to handle this. The king unit can be used for other purposes that the AI doesn't 'know' about (scouting, pilaging) and the unit recides in the capital: very easy target. Mass regicide also isn't that great: even more scout/pilaging units for the human player...

i like the mongols, especially if we're choosing a 3 billion earth if not Celts or Romans are my choises.

I agree with Aggie, besides regicide ain't as much bloodbath as conquest or domination

Finally, some interest!! Glad to have you on board!

I'll post greater details tonight (UK time)

Ok, thanks for the input. One thing I've noticed about regicide is the AI will build loads of units to defend its capital (and king). As for the human advantage in pillaging/scouting with the king - this is always war with raging barbs!! If we did play regicide and used the as an exploration/pillaging unit, it could be a very short game!

Anyway, I'm quite happy with conquest as the only victory condition - it will be do or die.

We'll take a vote on the civ between the 3 of us, so we can get started. The game will still be open, however, so if others wish to join they can jump in (5 or so is probably ideal for this sort of game). I propose the standard 24 hour "got it" and then a further 48 hours to play, with plenty of flexibility and choice in case anyone has a difficult or busy period.

Before we decide the civ, I thought I'd do a brief run-down of the pro's and con's of the civs available.

China - probably the strongest choice. Industrious is always useful, irrespective of game type, and moreover, remains useful for the entire game. Hooking up resources quickly could play a vital role in the early game. The rider is an awesome UU and would give us a big Middle-Age advantage if we chose China. The Golden Age would also be well-timed. With Masonry as our second starting tech, we could build walls early and have a great shot at the Pyramids if we got an early leader or an exceptionally strong start position.

Germany - the value of scientific would perhaps be magnified given the game conditions. With no trading whatsoever, we're going to have to research (or find from goody huts) every tech, so the free techs and the cheap research buildings would come in very handy. Germany is also the civ in the best position for early war, with the ability to build archers and spears from the start, and 1 tech away from swords. The Panzer is a very good UU but comes, perhaps, a little late to play a game-defining role, though it would be handy to mop up civs with Blitzkrieg if the game lasts that far. Another strong choice

Rome - the power of commercial increases as the game advances. If we chose Rome, we would probably struggle a little more earlier as we would lack the early advantages that expansionist, religious or industrious civs get. On the other hand, the extra gold would be very handy later in the game to aid upgrades and cash-rushing or research. Legionaries are excellent all-round units and would provide a GA we could use to build an unstoppable force of ancient units. Alphabet is the most expensive 1st rank tech to research, so this too would be an advantage, and a step closer to the valuable Great Library.

Celts- militaristic and religious has always been one of my favourite combinations. Build a temple and barracks in every city, for a combined cost of just 50 shields, and then produce all the units you want. The Celts (and Aztecs) would give us a big early advantage, but with only 1 government change in prospect (to Monarchy), once we're past the early Middle Ages the value of religious would be virtually zero. Ceremonial burial is a cheap 1st tier tech. As for the Gallic Swordsman - well, I think everybody appreciates their power but the cost could be prohibitive in an always war situation - 50 shields is pretty extortionate and we would be relying on good cities only to be able to produce them. (Personally I would always take the 30 shield attack 4 immortals over the 50 shield 2-move Gallic Swordsmen as the rulers of the ancient age).

Aztecs - as per the Celts but I think the Jaguar warrior is far better suited to always war than the Gallic sword. True, an Aztec Golden Age would be almost entirley wasted (as I doubt we'd have more than 2 cities) but the power of the Jag rush is phenomenal.

Zulu - not sure of the value of expansionist in this scenario. An early advantage provided by free techs or free settlers would be considerable in the circumstances, but I doubt we'd have the opportunity to pop many huts, given we have to declare war on neighbours as soon as we meet them, there is only 20% land and the barbs are raging - scouts could be killed rather quickly. On the other hand, we would have the opportunity to use scouts as nuisance units, as cheap pillagers and harrassers. Starting with Pottery is also a minimal advantage given its cheapness to research. The Zulu Impi is almost the perfect unit for always war - a mobile defensive unit, ideal for pillaging, capturing workers, defending resources, and providing quick reinforcements where needed. A good choice for this scenario, and a nightmare as an opponent.

Mongols - as per the Zulu; the only difference is the UU. Keshiks could potentially play a big role in their ability to traverse mountains as grassland given the 3 billion year age of the world, and also don't require iron which could save our backside if we discover we don't have this crucial resource. The Golden Age would also be well-timed, but essentially, they are inferior knights, and if the circumstances don't fit, they will provide a negligible advanatage at a crucial point of the game.

Vikings - as per the Zulu except for the UU. The Berserker is great. Attack 6 when the standard defence is 3. Amphibious attack. Wow. Cost would be less of a factor at that stage of the game as it is for the Celts and gallic swords. Will also stand out in the 80% water situation. Strong choice, would be even stronger choice if we were playing archipelago.

There we go, if anyone has anything to add, please do so, otherwise we need to vote on what civ to choose. Once that is done, we can have a discussion on strategy if needs be and then start the game

I go for Rome, China or the Mongols (mongols are because i always liked them, especially in Age of Empires )

All civs are fine with me. With the exception of the Romans: play them right now in the GOTM.

China may indeed be too powerful and the vikings have an awesome berserk. They are quite popular in SG's right now... Maybe time for something else?

Mongols is fine with me if you want it. The expansionist trait may be waisted in Nad's scenario, which makes to game even more difficult...

Celts no good the Gallic are too expensive and the reatreating ability is wasted with the Impi's, Germany the UU comes way too late, besides i don't think it will survive a third attack and the scientific trait don't work with this kind of game.

I like China, the riders with a extra move in that time and such small scenario could be deadly, industrious rocks in all kinds of game.

The Mongols, i like the UU it costs 10 shields less and moves like a grassland on mountains, good in 3 billion, traits suck in this kind of game, but a challenge is always good

Sounds like a toss-up between China and the Mongols...so...

*tosses a coin*
* heads = China, tails = Mongols*

*tails*

Mongols it is. I will start the game and post later today

First of all, a quick recap on the variant rules - no diplomacy or trading at all. War must be declared immediately upon meeting another civ and at no point may we ever talk to that civ for any reason. If other civs sell our contact, we must declare war as soon as we are aware that we know another civ. All militaristic, conquest only, the game begins.

Start http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/WDelightStart.jpg

Turn 1, 4000 BC - a nice start, coastal, fish and 2 spices, forests on grasslands and mountains. Near the equatorial region of the map. Also a goody hut within the capital radius.

I block ceremonial burial so we don't pop that from the hut, and found. It works - we get bronze working.

Karakorum starts a scout, worker moves to mine the only bonus grassland visible. 100% research on ceremonial burial, the cheapest available tech

turns 2 to 5 - uneventful, scout exploring

IT - scout complete, barracks ordered

6 and 7 - nada

Turn 8, 3650 BC - worker completes mine, starts road

Turn 9, 3600 BC - we spot a dark blue border to the south. Germany?

Turn 10, 3550 BC - nada

IT - borders expand

Turn 11, 3500 BC - worker completes road, moves to spices square to clear forest and then hook up the lux

Turn 12, 3450 BC - worker begins to clear forest; more spices sighted in the jungle near Germany (?), and a couple of fresh water lakes. The combination of mountains and jungle which is the only area we can expand to is not so pleasant now but will be very powerful later in the game.

IT - rax complete, start spear

Turn 13, 3400 BC - zilch

IT - Burial researched, start the Wheel

Turn 14, 3350 BC - as our scout ended the last turn next to blue borders, we can now make contact. It is Germany and we declare war immediately. This is gonna be very early war and I will try to use our two scouts for nuisance value until we can build up some military.

Berlin is on the coast, has 2 lakes within its borders, and ivory. It is defended by a regular warrior

IT - Spear appears at the top of Berlin, so they now have a spare warrior they can threaten our scouts with.

Turn 15, 3300 BC - one of our scouts runs through German borders. The other I will use for recon.

IT - the German warrior moves towards our scout in German borders.

Turn 16, 3250 BC - the 2-move of our scout allows it to escape the German warrior. There is desert to the south of Germany.

Turns 17 & 18 - nada

IT - our recon scout watches the German warrior begin to head north

Turn 19 - the continents tretches round Germany to the south, with plenty of ivory, deserts and mountains. A useful choke is spotted for later in the game

IT - spear complete, start Archer

Turn 20, 3050 BC - spear fortifies and scouts move.

Roster:

Aggie ..... UP
Manya.....ON DECK
Slots are still open

For this first round, play as many turns as you want to get a feel for the game, whether that be 10, 15 or more. After the first round we will play 10 turns each. 24 hours for a got it, a further 48 to play. Save games in the format "WDelight - 0000AD.sav" please.

Notes for next player - forest chop is due in 2.
Let's try to build a settler before taking the war to the Germans. We can then set one city for expansion and the other for military. Karakorum is a superb city for micromanagement, so use it well.

There is only one way we can expand - south, and there is some jungle/desert there but not many bonus resources. The sea will be an important resource in this game, so try to build cities coastal if possible.

The early part of the game is going to be expansion and military based. The great library is a big wonder in always war so at some stage, we need to think of a strategy to grab it. Take the war to the Germans - the sooner they are out of the way, the easier our expansion, and, as I say, there is a very handy choke to the south of Germany which we can use as a defensive point while we settle our territory (our southern scout is standing right by it in the screenie below).

Good luck and enjoy!

Save http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/WDelight3050BC.sav

Got it! These Germans settled on a nasty place. They have to be eliminated. Hopefully we get horses soon..

Aggie, wait!

That save I just posted doesn't work properly, I'm still fixing it and will post once its fixed

EDIT: the save is now fixed

Screenie

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/WDelightGermany.jpg


Note the tightness of land and the scarcity of bonus resources. The scout in th esouth is standing on a choke point that we can use after disposing of the nasty Gerrmans

Nad, thanks for warning me. Playing now...

Pre-turn. Nothing to chance. The scout at the choke can continue scouting. The one to the north has a problem: how to pass German territory?

Turn 1 - 3000BC: scouts move.

IT: forest chopped.

Turn 2- 2950BC: Start road to spices.

Turn 3 - 2900BC: Some scouting. Land to the west of the choke isn't very intersting..

IT: German warrior keeps moving north.

Turn 4 - 2850 BC: Archer built. Start settler. Treasury is low (-1 gpt and treasury = 9). I correct it. Archer goes south. Settler completes in 5 turns.

IT: Road to spices built. We happy!!!

Turn 5 - 2800BC: scout discovers Mysticism. Worker goes one tile south.

Turn 6 - 2750BC: start another forest chop.

Turn 7 - 2710BC: We are on a small island, with the Germans as our only neighbours. Our scouts are finished with the exploring...

Turn 8 - 2670BC: Our archer kills the German warrior. First battle won!! :shotgun:

Turn 9 - 2630BC: Settler built. Start spearman. Settler goes southwest with spearman. Avoiding Germans AND jungle for the moment.

Turn 10 - 2590BC: nothing much happened...

Turn 11 - 2550BC: Zzzzzz

Turn 12 - 2510BC: Ta-Tu built soutwest of Kakakorum. Tight build pattern. Growth will be very slow, but shield aren't bad... Start barracks.

Turn 13 - 2470BC: Zzzzzzz

Turn 14 - 2430BC: The Wheel discovered. Next tech will be Iron Working. Horses south of Ta-Tu, between the two lakes! Guess where our next city will be...

Turn 15 - 2390BC: Zzzzzz

IT: Forest chopped. The shield are just enough to finish our spearman in Karakorum.

Turn 16 - 2350BC: Settler started in Karakorum. Archer watches on a mountain for trouble from coming Germany. The horses must be secured!!

Turn 17 - 2310BC: Zzzzzzz

Turn 18 - 2270BC: Zzzzzzz

Turn 19 - 2230BC: Zzzzzzz

Turn 20 - 2190BC: Zzzzzzz

Considering the place were Germany started, I decided it was best to go for a tight build. And our Palace should move from Karakorum at some point. A lot of benefit of the palace wil be wasted (in the sea) if we don't. I made one little mistake already. I noticed too late that Ta-Tu's laborer decided to work on the de-forested spice terrain at 2390BC. Corrected it though...

Pointer for the next player: obviously the spot 3 tiles south of Ta-Tu should be our next city. We get horses there and on top of that fish, a fresh lake and shielded grassland. I would accompany the settler with a spearman.
Futhermore the archer was placed on a mountain near the German border to spy on developments. And to avoid settlers coming north...

2190BC

Here's our empire... Next place to settle: 1 tile north of the horses...

good stuff, Manya is up. We might want to pillage the German horse tile...

Afetr the third city we should definitely go on the offensive, kill the Germans and then have a peaceful phase to cover the entire island before all the other civs find us

Originally posted by Nad
After the third city we should definitely go on the offensive, kill the Germans and then have a peaceful phase to cover the entire island before all the other civs find us

Click to expand...

I agree!

Good idea about pilaging the horses improvent! Why didn't I think of that?

got it, playing

the .sav ain't working