Dates by which you should build Oracle, Mids, TGL (deity)

shakabrade

shakabrade

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Please post which are the earliest, and average, or just dates you feel the AI gets Mids, Oracle and The Great Lighthouse, on normal deity so the one who reads this thread can reduce his chance of failing.

I find you should build mids by 1800BC, Oracle by 2000BC, and TGL by 2000BC.
 
shakabrade said:
Please post which are the earliest, and average, or just dates you feel the AI gets Mids, Oracle and The Great Lighthouse, on normal deity so the one who reads this thread can reduce his chance of failing.

I find you should build mids by 1800BC, Oracle by 2000BC, and TGL by 2000BC.
Click to expand...

Oracle is such a risky wonder; it can go from horribly early 2400 BC to surprinsingly late 1200 BC (occured to me in a special map with many deity peacemonger :eek:).

Mids' date as presented seem good.

The Great Lighthouse is another wonder which lifespan as available wonder can be very variable thanks to its intimate connection to the map configuration and how many civs start on coast.
Still, 2000 BC seems a good and safe date.

I remember someone told us in the past by looking the demographics, one may deduce approx. chance to get the TGL, I think it has to do with average land...I can't recall.
 
Tachywaxon said:
I remember someone told us in the past by looking the demographics, one may deduce approx. chance to get the TGL, I think it has to do with average land...I can't recall.
Click to expand...

Jeez, reading stuff from demographics is something I deliberately ignore, although it would improve my gameplay. It's just too creepy.
 
you can judge how many tiles AI have in demographics screen with the land size report.
each tile is 1k, thus after settling you get for example 9k for completely landlocked.

If someone gets like 5k then there is high chance the capital is coastal.

Beware that lakes are not counted as land too, so something like 7k can mean landlocked with 2 lakes (or coastal of course ;-)).
 
I would say it's really too random to use anecdotes as guidelines.
I built the pyramids in 250 AD in a immortal game yesterday.
 
vranasm said:
you can judge how many tiles AI have in demographics screen with the land size report.
each tile is 1k, thus after settling you get for example 9k for completely landlocked.

If someone gets like 5k then there is high chance the capital is coastal.

Beware that lakes are not counted as land too, so something like 7k can mean landlocked with 2 lakes (or coastal of course ;-)).
Click to expand...

Thank you for your elaboration.

Since I almost always play high sea fractal, I always assume there are at least two coastal capitals. But I guess that looking demographics for that purpose is no biggie.
I guess I could detect creative leaders on turn 3 using that method. Although an extra settler the AI on deity has, could mess things up a bit.
The biggest problem is just that I don't know what to do with those information. Except if there are no coastal capitals, TGL is pretty safe. I guess that's the use.

Are certain leaders coded to pursue a certain wonder? I find Isabella very fond of AP, but maybe it's just coincidence.

Another question: if you oracle MC, how safe is Colossus?
 
well tough to say if the deep analysis of demo screen is useful, I find very interesting exercise though.

For example the soldiers category can tell you if there is MM on the map - that could lead you to know that either you (if you meet him) or other continent (if you play continents map) will be probably super quick with techs.

You can judge at t0 if there is any charismatic leader, if there is none, there you can shorten the list of potential AI's in game.

The thing with Cre you already wrote...

I don't really think this is something that can influence your overall strategy much, except maybe isolation start with MM.

Another useful thing is religion dates, for example. Like when we saw in couple games T9 Buddhism people react "this has Isabella written all over itself" :-).
This could then warn you about being some zealot on map, making your plans regarding religions adapt.
 
shakabrade said:
Another question: if you oracle MC, how safe is Colossus?
Click to expand...

Usually very safe.
If you have copper, colossus is probably one of the few wonders you can accually count on. ;)


To lose the colossus, you need a AI that goes for MC early, which is rare.
They need to build a forge in a costal city first, and then they have to decide they want to build the wonder.
And they also need copper to build it in reasonable time.

All these things together, make colossus easy to get.
 
Have been playing many openings, trying to find a consistent wonderspam strat. Can`t say I`m pleased by the results. :lol: Ran into some early wonder dates like GW turn 20-25 (which is somewhere in the 3000BC`s).

Anyway I ran six standard/normal/Fractal/Deity games a week ago. AI`s were handpicked HC, Qin, Louis, Ramses, Bismarck, Liz, Gandhi.


SH: 2680BC / 2760BC / 2800BC / 3080BC / 2760BC / 2720BC

GW: 2760BC / 2920BC / 2400BC / 2040BC / 2440BC / 2400BC

Oracle: 2320BC / 1960BC / 1720BC / 1800BC / 1920BC / 1720BC

Mids: 1840BC / 1040BC / 1280BC / 1200BC / 1560BC / 1800BC

ToA: 1440BC / 1800BC / 2080BC / 1480BC / 1200BC / 1720BC


My 2 cents~

Edit: This was without huts. With huts it becomes even more inconsistent to hit a wonder since the AI will get most of the goodies.
 
krazybastid said:
I have a hardtime understanding what some peopled post because of all the abbriviations
Click to expand...

For this thread here are some common ones
TGL: The Great Lightouse
TOA: Temple of Artemis
SH: Stonehenge
GW: Great wall

The War Academy also has an article here about acronyms about civ.
 
it is much better to use
GLH as Great Lighthouse
since
TGL is traditionally The Great Library...

gets confusing other way.
 
For Marathon:

SH 2800 - 2500 BC
Oracle 2500 BC - 1600 BC
GLH 2000 BC - 1500 BC
Mids 1700 BC - 1300 BC

That's my experience.
 
BurN said:
Have been playing many openings, trying to find a consistent wonderspam strat. Can`t say I`m pleased by the results. :lol: Ran into some early wonder dates like GW turn 20-25 (which is somewhere in the 3000BC`s).

Anyway I ran six standard/normal/Fractal/Deity games a week ago. AI`s were handpicked HC, Qin, Louis, Ramses, Bismarck, Liz, Gandhi.


SH: 2680BC / 2760BC / 2800BC / 3080BC / 2760BC / 2720BC

GW: 2760BC / 2920BC / 2400BC / 2040BC / 2440BC / 2400BC

Oracle: 2320BC / 1960BC / 1720BC / 1800BC / 1920BC / 1720BC

Mids: 1840BC / 1040BC / 1280BC / 1200BC / 1560BC / 1800BC

ToA: 1440BC / 1800BC / 2080BC / 1480BC / 1200BC / 1720BC


My 2 cents~

Edit: This was without huts. With huts it becomes even more inconsistent to hit a wonder since the AI will get most of the goodies.
Click to expand...

I think its worth noting that 5 out of 7 of those AI are IND.
 
I find you should build mids by 1800BC, Oracle by 2000BC, and TGL by 2000BC
Click to expand...

From my experience there's no safe time. But in regards to these numbers, you'd probably grab the appropriate wonders 85% of the time with those dates.....so they look good. From my experience later dates are definitely possible but not reliable.

Add a few years to any of the dates and success will be quite a bit less. I.E. grabbing Mids in 1500 BC would probably give you ownership less than 50% of the time, so on and so forth.
 
Early wonders are extreme bummer, I can assure it, but if it happens before you even started teching the pre-requisite techs, that's better than a bit later and got a bunch of useless techs. Mylene (R.I.P.) reported the earliest Oracle I have ever heard being 2600 BC on deity. Indeed, 'twas Izzy who was behind it. When some early wonder is gone at a ridiculous date and you are playing a map where you can't meet all the AI's, it can be indicator who are who elsewhere. Archi early oracle, Izzy or Saladin. Early Mids or GLH, often Augustus. Not reliable all the time, but it gives some hints.
 
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