CG4 - The Warmongering Greeks (PTW)

I'm back from my Civ hiatus! I got sick of peaceful games like SC4 and RTS games like AoM, and the beauty of Civ has called me back. Since I haven't played in a while, I don't want to make this a variant or anything, and not a very high difficulty level. So...

Civ: Greeks. I wanted to do a peaceful Civ.

Victory Conditions: All conditions on, but only Conquest will be accepted.

Map: Large map, Continents.

Opponents: Random.

Level: Monarch. Hey, its my first game in a while!

Rules: The usual exploits are forbidden. The only variant rule (and its not even that odd) in place is that we cannot be at war with more than one civ at a time. MPPs are allowed, but if we get drawn into a war (our ally is attacked) we cannot attack offensively. If another Civ attacks you, you are only allowed to defend your own territory or to recapture cities you lost in that war. So, in short, the only offensive attacks you can make are on civilizations you attacked. We can bombard (artillery, planes, etc) enemy territory and enemy cities that attacked us (they made the declaration of war) but we cannot capture. If we attack the civ, we can bombard, capture, raze, nuke, anything.

Version: PTW, 1.14f. Hope that clears it up.

Roster: Me--->Playing Now
Cromagnon--->On Deck
Swiftsure
Sultan
Aggie

(Licker will get the 6th spot if he ever changes his mind)

I should have a pic of the map up soon, as well as the save.

Well, here is the starting position. At least we have a river. Why couldn't the RNG give me a wonderful start on my first game back? Oh well. At least we can pump out Settlers...right?



And here is the save:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/CG4_4000BC.sav

I'll play 40 turns later today, and then we'll do 20 from there.

Sorry, haven't done this in a while. Here is the usual link to the save:

Just a quick question...

How can you control how many civs you are at war with? If you have multiples declare on you, or pull in additional civs on you what can you do?

The no MMPs I understand, but only one war at a time seems beyond your control. Now if it means only declaring on Civ at a time I can follow that, but you're still gonna wind up (probably) having more than one war against you at a time.

Originally posted by licker
Just a quick question...

How can you control how many civs you are at war with? If you have multiples declare on you, or pull in additional civs on you what can you do?

The no MMPs I understand, but only one war at a time seems beyond your control. Now if it means only declaring on Civ at a time I can follow that, but you're still gonna wind up (probably) having more than one war against you at a time.

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You're right. An oversight by me. So, how about this - if another Civ declares war on you, you must not make any offensive attack in their territory. You can only defend your own territory or attack cities that you lost during that war. So, you can only conquer cities when you declare war.

Oh, and licker - are you in?

Hey, CGannon, I haven't yet played a SG, but I'm a Monarch player, and would be interested in your game.

Just to clarify this rule:

If another Civ attacks you, you are only allowed to defend your own territory or to recapture cities you lost in that war. So, in short, the only offensive attacks you can make are on civilizations you attacked.

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I assume you mean "if another Civ attacks you while you are at war with someone else,, you are only allowed..."

Edit: Is this PTW?

Originally posted by cromagnon
Hey, CGannon, I haven't yet played a SG, but I'm a Monarch player, and would be interested in your game.

Just to clarify this rule:
I assume you mean "if another Civ attacks you while you are at war with someone else,, you are only allowed..."

Edit: Is this PTW?

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Nope, even if you are at war with no one, and someone attacks you, you can only regain lost cities in that war and defend against their attacks. Only wars WE initiate can be profitable in terms of gained territory.

And yes, its PTW, its in the title. Hope that's not a problem.

Now that I think of it, this is drifting more towards heavy variant than one minor rule...

Just added a little note about bombarding in the rules, as that will probably come up eventually. I'll play my 40 if licker or cromagnon say they will play...

on the PTW thing. D'OH! PTW is definitely not a problem.

So the only way to win (as conquest is the one of our choosing) is to declare war on a civ, and proceed to wipe them out, then switch to the next civ, etc.

I assume alliances are allowed, and that we don't have to be the one who wipes out the civ? And no particular rules on declaring war 'with honor,' or anything like that?

ps. If you want someone with more SG or Monarch experience, I don't mind being bumped off, but I'm up for a game.

Glad to see you back CG, i'm in

Originally posted by cromagnon
I assume alliances are allowed, and that we don't have to be the one who wipes out the civ? And no particular rules on declaring war 'with honor,' or anything like that?

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Yes. In fact, MPPs will be allowed, but they wouldn't be smart to use - if we get drawn into a war, we can't fight!

Alright. I'll play 40 turns later today. Cromagnon, you're on deck until licker responds.

Glad to see you back CG, i'm in

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One can't ignore Civ3 for TOO long.

Well I'd love to play a SG at some point, but my schedule for the next month has week long gaps in it that preclude any gaming of any type (well I guess craps and black jack count).

I don't think I can reasonably say I'm in for this one, although it does sound interesting. And the war conditions you are setting up are typically how I play my SP games anyway so it'd be a good fit for me I guess.

Oh well, next time, and good luck with it

Originally posted by licker
Well I'd love to play a SG at some point, but my schedule for the next month has week long gaps in it that preclude any gaming of any type (well I guess craps and black jack count).

I don't think I can reasonably say I'm in for this one, although it does sound interesting. And the war conditions you are setting up are typically how I play my SP games anyway so it'd be a good fit for me I guess.

Oh well, next time, and good luck with it

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Sure you don't want me to put you on the bench? It might not be over by then...

Anyway, I'm off to play right now.

Alright, here are my 40. I wasn't really happy with them, as the RNG screwed me over with two consecutive diseases, but its alright. The report:

(1) Athens founded on river, worker goes of to irrigate (obviously). Warrior started to scout. Pottery researched, bumped up to 100% at 18 turns.

(2-7) Nothing. Worker finishes irrigating and roading tile.

(8) Contact with the Americans! We trade Bronze Working and Alphabet for Masonry, Cermional Burial, and 10g. They have Pottery, but I don't ask; we're going to get it in 6 turns anyway.

(9) Warrior built, border expand. Some nice incense to the south sighted. Before exploration, we seem to be in a patch of desert surrounded by grassland and plains. Not bad.

(10-15) Nothing but exploration.

(16) Pottery discovered, Iron Working going on min sci at 40 turns, 6g/turn. Athens riots; the Hoplite hasn't been built yet, as we grow much faster than we build.

(17) I decide to switch the Hoplite to a Settler. I can just feel us lagging behind in growth. We'll leave Athens undefended for now. Lincoln is somewhere to the South, but he isn't a military threat just yet.

(18-22) Nothing.

(23) Disease kills a citizen in Athens, dropping it back to two. Damn flood plain.

(24) Disease hits Athens AGAIN! Its down to one now, I don't think it will be at three by the time the Settler is done...we'll have to wait and see.

(25-29) Sorry these turn numbers may be off. I can never count it right when there is long periods of nothing.

(30) Barb hut popped. Warriors attack us across the river, but we live. A black border seen to the west!

(31) The black border is across a channel. Can't even see the city. Normally I'd post a warrior here to get a good look, but we need our *sole* warrior to explore. I hate having one scout, but the disease really hurt our expansion.

(32) Athens riots again. Sorry. Note to teammates - Athens will riot whenever it hits size three without an MP in there. Sorry...

(33) Shaka greets us! (He's the black border.) We trade Burial for 10g and Warrior Code.

(34-38) Nothing.

(39) Settler built in Athens, shipped off to the western patch of grassland.

(40) Final turn. A barb is seen in the west. Sparta built. A few notes: Try to build another warrior in Athens to explore to the East and North. After that, I think churning out Settlers and Hoplite would be fine, with a few workers in between. Our southern most warrior should explore, obviously, to the South. If we can, try to play middleman between the Americans and the Zulu - the chances of the Zulu contacting the Americans is slim, so we can use that. I was going to make a dotmap, but it would be pretty much worthless until we clear up that dark area immediately south of Athens and immediately west. Just use your judgement.

Here is the save:

It's good to see I'm not alone in the bad luck department, but that doesn't bode well for the team.

It sounds like Athens is going to have shield problems until we get out of despotism and develop the land, so we may have to forego the granary.

Still at work, I'll take a look tonight and probably play 10 turns tomorrow, so this is a tentative Got It.

Originally posted by cromagnon
It's good to see I'm not alone in the bad luck department, but that doesn't bode well for the team.

It sounds like Athens is going to have shield problems until we get out of despotism and develop the land, so we may have to forego the granary.

Still at work, I'll take a look tonight and probably play 10 turns tomorrow, so this is a tentative Got It.

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You're playing 20 turns overall, you know that...right? And yes, I think Athens is going to be very low on shields, its really a settler city...and I HATE to have that as my capital. *sigh*

Gotcha, 20 turns it is.

By the way, I almost always use my capital as a settler city, but I usually have a better shield output than this.

We'll see if Sparta can generate the soldiers it was so famous for.

I'll join in but I have to warn you I still frequently get my a$$ kicked at monarch levels.

Originally posted by Sultan Bhargash
I'll join in but I have to warn you I still frequently get my a$$ kicked at monarch levels.

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Hey Sultan. I didn't know you played SGs. Anyway, I've found that I can win at Emperor and occaisonally at Diety levels in SGs - because you have such a short term (20 or 10 turns) its really the players as a whole. So don't worry, I'm sure you'll do fine.

Not to worry, SB. I often get my butt whooped on Monarch as well. Sink or swim...

This is an excellent opportunity for some of the more experienced players to critique my choices and plays, so don't be shy! I can take the abuse!