This thread is an offshoot of the earlier Thread about Civ traits which some of you may have read.
In that thread - which was originally started by SgtSlick to complain about what he felt were unbalanced Leader Traits -, the idea was suggested that as Civs go up through each age they were assigned a new Leader, based upon what had been their play style that last Age. Following on from that, the discussion changed into the addition of a Negative Trait to add some more variety to the current Leaders.
From that idea, TowerWizard and myself appeared to be on the same page- taking this idea of "evolving traits" and considering how it could be done. With some helpful suggestions from AIAndy and Hydromancerx (about what they felt the power of these traits should be, and how many traits should be given), this idea gradually became what I like to call "Cultural Heritage".
Google Images Search for "Cultural Heritage"
The notion of Cultural Heritage is currently as follows:
This whole notion of Cultural Heritage is independent of your Civilization / Leader, and the other "Culture" Wonders / Units in the game. Cultural Heritage shapes your Civilization (whatever Civilization that may be) depending on your actions throughout history, and the start the game gives you. If you start near lots of Forest, your Cultural Heritage will be more likely to be influenced by that, if you start near Desert, again your Culture will adapt, as your citizens learn the ways of the Desert. If you start near lots of other players, you may be more likely to invest in espionage or diplomacy, and the game will reward you. If you start near lots of Barbarians, you could get a defensive trait, and so on.
Also, in most cases (depending on pre-requisites) more than one Civilization may choose the same Cultural Heritage as you so long as they meet the criteria (though with all the choices available it would be quite unlikely for two Civilizations to get the exact same traits throughout history).
If your Civilization's Unique Unit happens to be a certain type that a mission wants, you may be more likely to build this unit, and thus have more chance of completing the mission, so your Civilization (e.g. England) may influence you towards certain traits, but it is your actions which will give you these different traits, not prescribed options due to having a particular Civilization/Leader combination.
Our hope is that once we have a list of the traits for all the ages that someone from the mod team will take the time to add this to the game. From what I can see, this can either be integrated into the current quests system, or a new XML Schema / Specialist Tags can be created for it (probably the better option as this would be rather easy, unless there's something against that for Civ4).
Also, a script would need to be written which does the following:
Unfortunately, my programming languages are Java and Perl, not C++ and Python, so I can't really do it this script myself (don't see why I can't write some XML though if needed).
I have tried to balance the positives and negatives for the trait based roughly on the power of the World Wonders available in the following age (they should be roughly the same or slightly stronger than the following age's World Wonders - this is because you get these at the end of an age / start of the next). If you think a certain trait is overpowered, chances are there is a similarly "overpowered" World Wonder available in that age that I can point to.
TowerWizard and I are still working out the details, but I thought I would mention the idea now and see what people thought about it. As we decide more on traits for the ages we will update this post (and the reserved posts beneath this one).
Update: TowerWizard seems to be MIA, but I will be continuing this when I can (End of August / September time). Any help would be appreciated, just PM me to let me know.
Any feedback on this idea would be great, just PM or post a comment .
Please Note: Work is currently on Hold.
A very WIP document may be found here: https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1RuSPp7BzNtxZPgRCjZhQTB6sqG7RM27NF5UBKu77Ow8
Progress:
- Micael
In that thread - which was originally started by SgtSlick to complain about what he felt were unbalanced Leader Traits -, the idea was suggested that as Civs go up through each age they were assigned a new Leader, based upon what had been their play style that last Age. Following on from that, the discussion changed into the addition of a Negative Trait to add some more variety to the current Leaders.
From that idea, TowerWizard and myself appeared to be on the same page- taking this idea of "evolving traits" and considering how it could be done. With some helpful suggestions from AIAndy and Hydromancerx (about what they felt the power of these traits should be, and how many traits should be given), this idea gradually became what I like to call "Cultural Heritage".
Cultural Heritage
Full Wikipedia LinkWikipedia said:Cultural heritage includes tangible culture (such as buildings, monuments, landscapes, books, works of art, and artifacts), intangible culture (such as folklore, traditions, language, and knowledge), and natural heritage (including culturally-significant landscapes, and biodiversity).
Google Images Search for "Cultural Heritage"
The notion of Cultural Heritage is currently as follows:
- At the end of every Age of the game, players will be presented a dialog allowing them to pick two traits from a list of 5 options, and preserve them as part of their Cultural Heritage.
- Each trait will have several positive aspects (including a bonus), and a negative aspect to it.
- These traits (of which we are aiming for more than 20 per age) will have been chosen based on the Civilization's actions over the past age.
- Each Age will have a "Theme" associated with it, which will flavour the traits slightly.
- There will also be certain traits available across all eras.
- To keep these actions balanced, we will use a relative scale against quests. Each "Trait" will be associated with a "Mission". These missions contain a list of criteria which "Completion" will be matched against. Take the following Example:
[Mission] Land of Our Ancestors- Train 2 Tribes
- Found 2 new cities.
- Have a total of 10 population in your Cities.
- Have a total of 40 tiles within your culture borders.
(Note: numbers in italics are actually x and will be balanced properly- this example has not been balanced).
If the following is true: - Trained 2/2 Tribes - Completion: 100%
- Founded 1/2 new cities. - Completion: 50%
- Have a total of 7/10 population in your Cities. - Completion: 70%
- Have a total of 32/40 tiles within your culture borders. - Completion: 80%
- Mission Total Completion = 75%.
It is this "Total Completion" number of each trait which will be scaled against one another (the 5 traits offered to you at the end of each age will be the 5 whose missions you are closest to completing). By working it out like this, there are much less balancing issues, as the balance is mostly internal to each trait.
- If you pick a trait which you have less than 100% Total Completion for (which is certainly possible, and the norm) then you will still recieve a reward, as your Civilization has focused on this area in such a way that they are now proficient in it, it becomes a way of life for them. For Example:
- [<100% Completion Reward] +50% production for tribes and settlers, cities on this continent can't flip from culture, +50% great general emergence during Ancient and Classical Ages
- If your Civilization picks a trait for which they have 100% Mission Completion, they will get an additional Bonus to add to their Cultural Heritage, as their Civilization has truly excelled in this area (this will obviously be more difficult). For example:
- [100% Completion Bonus] +10% combat strength within cultural borders on this continent.
- Note:Even if you do not pick the Trait, you will still get a smaller bonus for reaching 100% completion. This may be a unit, or a weak promotion.
- As your Civilization travels through the ages, you will get more of these traits to add to your Cultural Heritage, thus making your Civilization truly unique, and better on the areas you focus on.
- As suggested by AIandy, we are taking the inspiration for the strength of these traits from the Wonders in the game (as there will be a limited number of traits that you can choose in any one game - two per era - there are currently 9 eras in C2C, so you will choose 8 times, for a total of 16 traits).
Cultural Heritage and Civilizations / Leaders
I think it should be established that your idea is not linked to a specific "civilization" as in the culture resources, unique units/heroes/buildings and so on you can get. Nor is it linked to a playable civ such as starting out playing as Washington of the United States. Your idea would be independent to these but still possibly influenced by them.
This whole notion of Cultural Heritage is independent of your Civilization / Leader, and the other "Culture" Wonders / Units in the game. Cultural Heritage shapes your Civilization (whatever Civilization that may be) depending on your actions throughout history, and the start the game gives you. If you start near lots of Forest, your Cultural Heritage will be more likely to be influenced by that, if you start near Desert, again your Culture will adapt, as your citizens learn the ways of the Desert. If you start near lots of other players, you may be more likely to invest in espionage or diplomacy, and the game will reward you. If you start near lots of Barbarians, you could get a defensive trait, and so on.
Also, in most cases (depending on pre-requisites) more than one Civilization may choose the same Cultural Heritage as you so long as they meet the criteria (though with all the choices available it would be quite unlikely for two Civilizations to get the exact same traits throughout history).
If your Civilization's Unique Unit happens to be a certain type that a mission wants, you may be more likely to build this unit, and thus have more chance of completing the mission, so your Civilization (e.g. England) may influence you towards certain traits, but it is your actions which will give you these different traits, not prescribed options due to having a particular Civilization/Leader combination.
To the Mod Team:
Our hope is that once we have a list of the traits for all the ages that someone from the mod team will take the time to add this to the game. From what I can see, this can either be integrated into the current quests system, or a new XML Schema / Specialist Tags can be created for it (probably the better option as this would be rather easy, unless there's something against that for Civ4).
Also, a script would need to be written which does the following:
- Determine "Mission Completion" from list of requirements.
- Check to see if any prerequisites are met for the traits.
- Compare the mission completion of the available traits.
- List the top 5 completed ones (or randomly picks from the top completed ones if there is a tie).
Unfortunately, my programming languages are Java and Perl, not C++ and Python, so I can't really do it this script myself (don't see why I can't write some XML though if needed).
A Note Regarding Balance
I have tried to balance the positives and negatives for the trait based roughly on the power of the World Wonders available in the following age (they should be roughly the same or slightly stronger than the following age's World Wonders - this is because you get these at the end of an age / start of the next). If you think a certain trait is overpowered, chances are there is a similarly "overpowered" World Wonder available in that age that I can point to.
To Everyone
TowerWizard and I are still working out the details, but I thought I would mention the idea now and see what people thought about it. As we decide more on traits for the ages we will update this post (and the reserved posts beneath this one).
Update: TowerWizard seems to be MIA, but I will be continuing this when I can (End of August / September time). Any help would be appreciated, just PM me to let me know.
Any feedback on this idea would be great, just PM or post a comment .
Current Status (Updated August 14th 2012)
Please Note: Work is currently on Hold.
A very WIP document may be found here: https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1RuSPp7BzNtxZPgRCjZhQTB6sqG7RM27NF5UBKu77Ow8
Progress:
- 14/14 Prehistoric Era Traits. - Posted.
- 13/16 Ancient Era Traits. - Post Pending until Completion.
- Classical Era Theme has been proposed.
- Medieval has not been started.
- Renaissance has not been started.
- Industrial has not been started.
- Modern has not been started.
- Trans-Human has not been started.
- Galactic has not been started.
- Micael