Rhino's Return - Immortal Brennus

Sup everyone. Rhino's back. Sorry to be away for so long, work and family and all, but I'm glad to be playing again.

I haven't touched the game in months. We'll see if a Rhino's memory is as good as an elephant's

Last game, against Wang Kon, I discovered the importance of having at least some commerce. (Pro Tip: Always have at least some commerce.) Anyway, that game wasn't going to well, so I think I'll back off of Deity for the moment.

Settings:

• Marathon. (Yep, still my favorite.)
• Immortal.
• Brennus (Spiritual / Charismatic) of the Celts.
• Barbs are on. If I'm stepping down to immortal, I gotta add a little challenge in, right?
• No huts, events, or tech trades.
• Fractal, all defaults.

Detailed settings:


And the start:


Normally, I'd pause here and wait for feedback. But I'm eager to get into the game. I'd really like to pick up that gold, and it was just the one clam I'd probably do it, but with three clams + rice + maybe another resource, I'm thinking settle in place.

Here's the save game, if you want to shadow. Requires MacBuffy.

Next post, starting the game, coming in a minute.

Meeting the Neighbors (Turns 1-97, Years 4000-2545 BC)

Turns out I was right about the resource in the fog:


Elephants! Charismatic elephants even. If I can make it to construction before my opponents make it to longbows, I can take all the land I want.

I think about going fishing first. But with two tiles worth improving (the rice is wet), I'll go worker first. Here's my tech path:


Agriculture, fishing, bronze working.

I meet the neighbors almost immediately. Ragnar on turn five, Joao on turn seven. We must be really close. Glad it's not Deity.

Here's the land surrounding me:


A bit of micro at home. I do the elephant first so I can start on a workboat. I'm not sure if the rice was maybe better, but on immortal I should be able to get away with it. Anyone know?


Also, since barbs are on, I make a warrior before the first workboat. It adds to turns to the wb, but the insurance is worth it.

3145: My warrior is in fog busting position. He got in a fight on his way over, which delayed him a few turns. I don't play with barbs on much, so not sure if this is the best spot. But Ragnar should fog bust the Southeast, and my woodsman warrior should be safe on a forested hill.


A couple turns later, my worker has finished the rice. I work it for a couple turns to grow, and fortify the worker. He'll get back to work once bronze working completes.


Shortly after that, I've mostly scouted the island:


A bit of micro: As each clam comes online, I worked it to grow quickly, then resume working the elephant.


2545: Bronze working completes. There are two sources of copper I can see:


I'm thinking to drop a city on the nearby desert where the barb is standing, grabbing the nearby copper, gold, and sharing a clam. That's next turn set.

hey rhino as long as you play marathon anyways, why don't you check out the realism invictus mod being showcased by nitrah right now? It seems to be designed around marathon speed and looks excellent.

edit: ahh you ninja posted that you've already played some turns. Oh well.

Re: elephants first - It seems pretty clear that it would be better to farm the rice first, seeing how you didn't complete your workboat until size two anyways.

Re: fogbusting warrior - either keep him there for the forest hill, or move him 1ne to cover more ground. Barbs will not spawn in within your vision or withing 2 tiles of a unit. Currently there is overlap where you are spawnbusting with both vision (from culture) and the warrior.

Sadly, most mods don't work on Mac, and it looks like RI is one of them. I just don't have the patience to dual-boot. Thanks for the heads up, though, it looks like a neat mod.

Hey, OLR is back! Alright!

If it were me, I'd have totally missed the elephants by moving 1NW. How did you know? Could you see movement in the fog?

I also think that rice and then ivory was teh superior, but you should be ok. Otoh, maybe you should've gotten BW before fishing.

On the elephants: By rotating the camera to the right, I could see there was no forest on that tile. And on a start like this, no forest pretty much means a resource. Didn't know what it was, though.

I didn't think too hard about settling in place. I looked for a way to pick up the gold, but it cost me a clams and added a bunch of garbage tiles to the city, so I passed. But don't put too much weight into that decision, I didn't really think about it too hard, and 1NW could well be a better capital, even with the elephants. (More commerce for faster techs, and you have plenty of food to work the gold).

On the rice: Wow, when you're in practice, these things are obvious, huh? Yeah, looking back on the later turns, and how I prioritized clams over elephants, I think rice would have been better. Good thing I dropped down a level, huh?

Yeah, I know how getting away from the game can sometimes really mess up your sense of priorities. I spent last summer away from the game and when I came back, I thought the Sacrificial Altar was a below average UB

Well, I might not be the best for city placement advice, but your second city seems reasonable to me. Sure, it'll never be a great city, but A) grassland copper is a very strong tile and B) it's always nice to have something between your capital and the enemy.

welcome back! awaiting some good fun

that land doesn't look hot and the leader...

I too think that going rice before ivory would be stronger, it is wet rice afterall, but without spreadsheeting some numbers you never know.

I could imagine you could run a lot of coastal cities since the inland looks so barren, maybe GLH would be good option?

beware of barbarians on marathon, they have the power to eat you alive and there is a lot of open land.

Yeah, onelegged is back! Good to see you again. Subbed.

OneLeggedRhino said:

I'm thinking to drop a city on the nearby desert where the barb is standing, grabbing the nearby copper, gold, and sharing a clam. That's next turn set.

Click to expand...

Why not two tiles west of that? That hill has fresh water.

Besides, you want to keep Joao as short as you can - he settles like mad (and indeed you can see Oporto to the north already)...

@kazapp: Yeah, I could see that. If you do, though, you'll have to chop both forests for the monument to block Joao and to get access to your only food source (and eventually the gold). I think it's too much of a stretch, but it might be a good gamble after all.

I also like how it allows you to build the Gold N Calf city (ie. grabbing cows plus gold and eventually spices).

I'd probably settle the cow spice gold city and grow cottages for the cap while working cow and gold and try to MAYBE catch the rice cow copper wine from joao.. Probably wont make it intime, either way.. I'd try to kill both neighbors with elepults but go for joao first.

Claiming Metals (Turns 97-174, Years 2545-1760 BC)

I start by planning my dotmap:

I like the idea of claiming a little more space in Joao's direction:


Why not on the plains hill? Well, both floodplains are Joao's. (One is in his inner ring, the other has support from his capital soon). The gold we would contest evenly, but it's not worth it. This placement puts the rice in the inner circle, and grabs a cow.

Just east of my capital, a production city with a bunch of elephants:


I'd thought about placing it 1S, but those jungle squares are dead for quite a while. This city will be good right away.

To the North, some commerce cities:


These aren't strictly backfill, but they're quite far from Joao or Ragnar. I'll grab them a bit later.

And, there's more land to the east if I can grab it. This dot is just one possibility:


Based on that dotmap, here's my tech path:


Pottery, animal husbandry, then probably writing.

I finish off the work boat, and build a second worker and a settler at size 6:


2370: Wheel completes.

2490: Most advanced civilizations comes out. Joao is #2. Ragnar and I are last.


2330: I grab West Copper:


Three workers make the road and mine. (I'd chopped out one more after the settler.)

2120: Joao claims the cow. I kind of wish I'd gone 1W, but then I wouldn't have the copper in the center ring. It's still a good city with just the rice and a couple hills.


2010: Animal husbandry completes. There's one horses, way up north. No one will get it anytime soon.


2020: I whip a settler, with good overflow into a granary. A chop should complete the granary before Babricate grows.


2000: Inner gold founded. Because, as I discovered last game, you need some commerce.


It takes the clam for now. In 1830, it grows to size 2 and works the gold.

1990: Holy cow, I'm the largest on the continent!


1760: Writing completes. Open borders with Joao for +2 CPT. I'm nowhere near Ragnar, so he can wait.

Also, by this point, most of the island is fog busted. There's one barb city by Joao, but no real impact from barbs.

Here's a shot of my empire at the end of the turnset:


I have one axe, and Babricate has a barracks. Joao doesn't have copper, and he's 16 turns from iron. I thought about rushing him, but it seems unnecessary. I still have plenty of natural expansion to do, and catapults + elephants will let me conquer easily enough. (He has elephants, too, but they're terrible defenders).

Next turnset, I'll claim the elephant city, plus the two northern commerce cities, tech Math, then decide on currency vs. catapults.

Nicely played so far. So next city to be settled will be 3 elephant city (nice forest to chop too) and looks like you're on your way to Construction soon. I'd bet you'd be fine sticking to just axe/spear/Catapaults vs Jao. Lot's of gold on this map should make the game pretty easy and imo it's probably already won, especially after you take some of Jaos cities and get your double gold city online.

GG

edit: deleted post

Pulling Ahead (Turns 174-274, Years 1760-760 BC)

I whip Babricate, and found Elephanto in 1720:


With all those elephants, it will be a production city.

1700: W Copper's borders pop, claiming me the cow. It won't be for long, but it's nice while it lasts.


1590: Sailing completes. I put it in before math so I can claim the island between me and Joao (2 seafood, plus good internal trade routes), and so I can defend against barb galleys that could mess up Babricate's clams.

Most of my cities are making axes or galleys. Babricate is making settlers, and a library and lighthouse while it regrows.

1570: Joao grabs a barb city, in the jungle, on the wrong side of the continent. Ragnar must have been wearing it down, then Joao swept in and grabbed it. Nice.


1430: I'm worried that Joao will claim the island, especially since his capital is coastal. So I grab it first:


It will go monument, granary and library, all based on whips. With 2 seafood, it's pretty decent, but more importantly, it gets me good trade routes. (Not needed right now, but once I get Currency, it will make a big difference).

1300: Babricate is ready for another whip. It stacks anger a bit, but (1) I'm charismatic, so that's not such a big deal, and (2) claiming land is worth stacking a little whip anger.


3 turns later, and I have N Gold, which should boost my economy nicely.


1200: Babricate finally starts running scientists. A bit late, but most of my cities are food-poor, and I've prioritized expansion.


At this point, I have an axe in every border city, plus a spear in a couple. (Ragnar has horses). My power is pretty good relative to the AIs, and I'm not planning an attack right now, so more troops just increases upkeep. I swap most cities to libraries, and will run scientists soon.

1160: Math completes. I think about Construction, but I'm still peacefully expanding. Ragnar is working on Writing, so I'm well ahead of him. Joao is working on Calendar, so I'm around even there. Waiting a little longer before attacking won't cause any problems. So I'll go Currency next.


Also on my mind: Religion. We don't have one, and Judiasm went fairly late. It would be nice to grab Code of Laws.

1020: N Fur founded. (This settler came out of W Copper, which is size 5 and needs something to make besides axes). I normally would stop expanding at this point, but with a cow and 3 furs, this city will turn a profit fairly quickly.


There's some more space west of there that I could grab, and there's actually a fairly nice barb city with several floodplains, but it's really close to Joao, and it wouldn't turn a profit for a while. So I'm done with expansion for now.

For the next 20-30 turns, I'm just improving land and slowly growing everything to size. Between some scientists and starting to work the gold and fur, my economy starts picking up again, and I'm glad I'm working on Currency instead of Construction.

760: Ragnar declares war on me. No preparation time, just an attack. He kills a couple of warrior scouts, but only enters my territory with this:


The city has an axe and a spear defending it, so they're not exactly threatening. And I'm at 0.8 of Ragnar's power, with only 11 military units:


Ragnar is seriously not ready, which means I don't even have to whip. And once I swap everyone to units, I'll have a stack in about 10 turns. I don't know if I'll take any cities without catapults, but I should be able to pillage and get peace.

On the whole, after adjusting to Deity level difficulty, Immortal feels pretty relaxing, even with barbs on. It's rather enjoyable.

Next turnset: The war with Ragnar.

Also on my mind: What to do with the Great Scientist coming up? Academy in Babricate is an option, since long-term, it'll be a GP city. Or I could bulb Alphabet (I think), or save him for a later bulb, or pop a golden age to research Construction or Code of Laws. Thoughts?

Hey Keilah, thanks for the note. I didn't see it before playing that turnset, but I did think about moving the furs 1S. Here's why I didn't:

The gold city has +7 food (2 from center tile, 2 from cow, 3 from wheat), meaning it can easily work both golds. The fur city has +4 food (center tile + cow), meaning it can work the 3 furs and the hill. Also, the NW fur has a forest, so this gets me +1 hammer starting at size 3.

A Quick War (Turns 274-288, Years 760-620 BC)

700: Great Scientist born. What to do with him?

An academy in Babricate is hardly worth it right now.


Bulbing alphabet isn't particularly worthwhile, either. (No tech trades.) So I settle him, to speed up currency and whatever's next, planning to build the Academy with the next one.

In retrospect, I think I should've held him to bulb philosophy. It will take about 300 turns to catch up in terms of bulbs, plus philosophy was probably my best bet for landing a religion. That's what I get for taking a break

680: Ragnar never sends more than a couple units out. So I send a small force to explore Ragnar's territory, leaving an axe and a spear at home. My goal is just to pillage a bit, but I find:


Two archers. Can I take the city?

Next turn, he's added a horse archer, and soon he's whipped a sword, too. Not worth it. I just pillage a few hamlets, which nets about 60G. Not bad. I should pillage more often.

640: Confucianism found in a distant land. I was imagining that settling the GS might give me a shot at this, but clearly not.


630: Ragnar has beefed up the city I'm pillaging, so no point sending more troops there. On the up-side, it is down to size 1. But let's see what else he has.


Two archers again, but with the wrong upgrades and nothing to reinforce them. I burn the city next turn. (It was an auto-burn, so no diplo hit).

620: Currency completes. Nets 13 CPT, due to that one island city.


Not sure if it's the ability to trade money, or razing his stupid city, but Ragnar will pay me 120G for peace. Which is excellent in my book, since I'm not ready to conquer him yet.

Peace lets me turn on scientists, build wealth, and turn up my research rate to spend his gold.


Research doubles: Masonry was in six turns before peace, and now it's in three. (Construction is next, then horseback riding. I'll build up a stack while researching code of laws.)

So, short turnset. Ragnar's war didn't go well for him. The next one will go even worse. Long term, I think I'll claim the entire island, and rely on offshore cities for trade routes. (There's another good spot in the northeast, and I have space for a third weak one near home, if I need it.)

i think that in NTT settling scientists is better then usually.

nicely done with Ragnar, doesn't surprise me in a bit that he attacked you...actually when you wrote about your expansion plans after 2nd TS it was my first thinking that he will attack you for sure.

landing common religion and HR could solve Ragnar though eventually, unless you're to catapults before.

Over-Preparing for War (Turns 288-328, Years 620-220 BC)

I decided to get archery (3 turns), to free up my axes, then go for construction and horseback riding. Now that I'm at peace, my tech rate jumps:


Also, notice that Ragnar is way behind Joao. He'll be my first target to eliminate. I'll keep Joao around to spy on.

510: Remember that barb city right on Joao's borders? Well, Ragnar takes it.


These guys are seriously screwing their economies. I think he gifts it, though, since Joao gets a +1 for liberation with Ragnar.

400: Construction completes. I'm almost done with archers, and Babricate and Elephanto switch to cats.

260: Horseback riding completes, but there's no need to wait for elephants. Here's my stack, ready to strike:


Looks like someone has his pants down.

On defense, every city has an archer. Each pair of cities has an axe and a spear playing zone defense. My island city is slow-building an archer (1 hammer per turn), so it's always ready to whip.

With those kind of defenses and the largest army on the continent, I'm thoroughly over-prepared for war. Apparently, deity / aggressive AI trains you to build way more troops that necessary.

This should be fun.

Next turnset: Conquering Ragnar. (No one has Feudalism yet, so no vassalling concearns).